Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author

Which crampons work best?

JohnK

28-Oct-2003
5:27:55 PM

For the mountaineers on chockstone, courtecy of the crampons I broke at blue lake - Simonds S10's (yep, got a full refund - thanks MD) I am now looking for a new pair for upcomming trip to NZ.

In terms of waterfall/ice/rock climbing and glacier travel, what do people think in terms of the most suitable brand/model?

Leaning towards something like the Charlet Moser M10's which have mono/dual point capability, or something like the Black Ice model which has agressive front points. Others have suggested the Black Diamond Sabertooths as being great.

Your thoughts?

James

28-Oct-2003
5:54:21 PM

grivel G14.

otherwise CM Blackice are excellent all-round crampons. I have been told that the sabretooths ball up a lot more than others.


Cheesehead

29-Oct-2003
3:00:01 AM

Ooh, I'm getting all goosebumpy at the thought of NZ!

I'm using CM Blackice, which I think are fantastic all rounders, and most people agree. The BD Sabreteeth (sabretooths?) seem very similar, though I can't speak for them.

Using this style, you're agressive enough without unecessary weight, and can still walk (read - don't take rigids), which is a key portent of mountaineering (as opposed to carpark waterfall climbing).

RE snow balling - you can buy crazily priced anti-pot plates, or you and some buds can all chup in for a big tub of icecream. If you're in NZ, go for something you don't mind eating half a litre of (depending on the size of your party). Orange choc chip is NOT such a flavour.
Cut up the plastic, and bind it with wire to the front and rear sections each crampon separately.

When I got my black ice, I wanted toe and heel bails, 'cos I thought click-in was cool. I was given a good price on a set with a heel bail and toe strap - This is so much more secure and much less likely to come off. One of the screws fell out half way down an ice slope, and the crampon collapsed into two pieces, yet I didn't loose them (of course, they weren't much good then...). Which brings me on to the topic of locktite......

bradc

29-Oct-2003
12:29:03 PM

I've used BD sabretooths for all round mountaineering and some steep ice. Been quite happy with them but wouldn't mind something with vertical front points if I was to be doing a lot of steep and/or mixed stuff. For that reason if I were buying new now I'd go for the Grivel G14, also a safer attachment than the BDs step-in design which I have.

James

29-Oct-2003
12:30:54 PM

I should have also mentioned that the G14s come standard with anti-bot plates.


shmalec

29-Oct-2003
1:21:57 PM

Think it goes somehting like this.
If you have rigid boots ie plakies or performance leathers, get rigid crampons. If you have standard leather all rounders, get hinged crampons.
If you are going to be climbing a bit of everything, get general purpose crampons with at least 12 points and horizontal front points. Black Ice are good. I have a very similar one made by Grivel with points that kinda splay outwards which further reduces balling up. On the topic of balling, vertical front points are not recommended for anyone but those doing lots of hard ice, as they ball up more on soft stuff due to snow getting caught between the vertical teeth.
As far as attachment goes, bails are faster to put on and off, but you need to check for a good fit with your boot.

dodgy

29-Oct-2003
5:28:39 PM

Re- Anti balling, didn't have any with me but did have (heaps) of Greenseas tuna in the plastic sachets. Combined with gaffa it worked a treat!


vwills

31-Oct-2003
12:53:46 PM

Not hugely experienced with brands but I looked into this a earlier this year and agreed with the general consensus- CM Black ice if NZ is the major destination. (A lot of the guiding companies use them for clients.) The crampons were aggressive enough for overhanging glacial ice climbs. Certainly stuck better than my girly left ice tool placements. I ended up buying stepins 'cos they fitted well with my boots and I hate friggin around at 2am with numb fingers.
Anti ball plates (brand or icecream container) help enormously. It was very frustrating travelling with a partner who didn't have them and slowed us down considerably. Interestingly guys from the Cascade region in the US poo-pooed antibot plates. I guess the snow quality there could be different? Don't know if they changed their mind.

James

31-Oct-2003
1:24:46 PM

it would be interesting. is it safe to assume that its heaps colder in the Cascades, hence the snow is drier & doesn't ball quite so much. the snow often wet & heavy in NZ.

JohnK

7-Nov-2003
2:12:30 PM

Ok the Grivel G14's won out due to their longer secondary points which I think will be better on long ice routes compared to the M10's.
Bonus is that they come with the anti-snow plates as a standard item. Will find out how good they are when I get to NZ next month.


Paulie

7-Nov-2003
11:52:54 PM

Look at what you're doing mainly. Waterfall ice I would be going for something like Bionics or M10s so you can adjust the front points at different angles and points on the front bar (ie., for single point use ovre your big toe). For glacier travel I have used both Sabretooths and Bionics. Make sure you get anti-ball plates for anything you buy. Classic 12 pointers for all mtn use have way more flotation than specific waterfall ice stuff. So saying, classic 12 pointers also shatter ice more than a crampon like say the bionic. My advice, buy 2 pairs and use each for their purpose!


Paulie

8-Nov-2003
11:36:53 PM

Just another note...with regard to construction, crampons like the Grivel G14 and BD Bionic work quite well as they are horizontally railed. If going for one particular pair for all round use, ensure they are horizontally railed for floatation and have the rear points on the front and rear sections perpendicular to the frame for downhill stability.


Cheesehead

9-Nov-2003
11:56:12 AM

Hey Paulie! glad to see you've joined the fray, and that you ended up getting into the mountain gear :)
Mat


ecowain

4-Dec-2003
3:15:37 PM

Sabretooth crampons also have an adjustable front bar, which makes them very easy to use with tele boots if you're that way inclined. Move the bar back, and you once again have front points. Only problem then is the flex in the boot itself, but this doesn't seem to be a problem on easy to moderate snow and ice.


Romfrantic

29-Dec-2003
4:38:22 PM

what did you end up getting JohnK? and where?....

I have also heard good things of the Black Diamond Sabers, but haven't used them personally...from experience, clip-ons such as the Grivels (e.g G10, G14 or 2F) are the best I have used (with a high price to match unfortunately)....however, I don't like the plastic front straps nor the metal bar across the front of the toes in some of the Gs (apparently bad for the groove in the boot if lots of front-pointing/ice-climbing is done with them).....would be interested to know of recent experinces in NZ, John.

JohnK

3-Jan-2004
12:57:41 PM

I went with the G14s in the crampomatic version for plastic boots as they came standard with the anti balling plastic bits and had slightly longer secondary points than the M10s which I thought would be better for moderate ice slopes.

After 3 weeks in NZ I have totally given these things a work out and courtecy of spending lots of time on mixed rock/ice the anti balling plates have got a fair few rips in them, all the crampon points are now blunt and need sharpenning and one of the rear plastic boot clips looks like it has de-formed in its shape so its needs replacing.

Were they worth the cash? (around $300 - try Steve at Rock Hardware). I guess so when compared to my old Simonds S10's. I had no problems with the front steel bar on my plastics but courtecy of the deformed rear clip on one crampon it came off whilst walking down the Linda Glacier! so I was not too happy about that at all.

The front point system which looks like a front part of a pair of ice axe picks seems to work well in everything from glacier walking to vertical ice. I was however surprised at how quickly they went blunt and also that there has been a slight build up of rust on them as well (I was not able to always put them out to dry at the end of every climb). Some RP7 and a file have fixed all of that up.

Had no time to try the climbing with mono points, but in the duo point form I found them quite good when rock climbing with a good level of "feel" (as much as you can get with plastics and crampons anyhow).


Robb

13-Jan-2004
2:08:18 PM

dmm gladiators - awesome crampon. horizontal front points and awesome secondary points. i used a pair of charlet moser grade 8s with vertical front point for two years in NZ and patagonia. not too bad but tended to shear out of hard snow and soft ice a lot more than the horizontal front points. to bar retainer is also great (missing on BD crampons). no point in dying because your crampon falls of.

James

13-Jan-2004
5:06:42 PM

so beefy, tell me how the DMM crampons helped with carpet shopping....

13-Jan-2004
6:34:33 PM

the previous issue of climbing mag has a crampon review


Robb

14-Jan-2004
2:00:53 PM

james thought it might be u. it always helps to bring a girl carpet shopping with you. if you have a sexy pair of crampons she is more likely to accompany you. the dmms had great holding power on all those little knots.

heading anywhere soon?

There are 21 messages in this topic.