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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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Author
Quickdraws - Karabiner gate orientation?
Atomic_Tomatoes
26/10/2008
6:39:06 PM
Which way do you have your karabiner gates on your quickdraws?

I see most people have them on the same side like this -
http://www.rockhardware.com.au/Order.asp?Action=View&StockCode=1497b&MainGroup=Karabiners

But you still see others with them on opposite side like this -
http://www.rockhardware.com.au/Order.asp?Action=View&StockCode=metolius4c&MainGroup=Karabiners

Is there any real difference?

muki
26/10/2008
7:20:42 PM
No difference at all, if clipping a bolt with a hanger plate I go down through the plate, then spin the top
draw around 180 degrees, that way the spine of the biner is against the rock without accidentally flicking
the plate off the bolt by going up from underneath.
if a draw is good for the rope direction, but has the gate facing the rock then I will spin the top biner, as
that's the loose one, and the rope is fixed at the rope end so that it can't cross load, so spinning it is not
an option.
Rig them any way you want, it makes no difference, just cosmetic.

seppo
26/10/2008
7:22:15 PM
i have 'em opposite. that way i can clip the rope through the beaner, and the other beaner to the
bolt/piece with the same hand easier. doesn't really matter though just how you like to clip wither you put
middle finger in the beaner and kind of roll the rope into the beaner with your thumb and index finger, or
go the other way.
DrDan
26/10/2008
9:01:05 PM
I was in a climbing gear store yesterday - had a chat with an experienced climber there who recommended that my biners in the quickdraw should always be in the opposite direction, I think in order to prevent accidental pullouts/unclips...?
I guess this depends on the nature of the terrain/direction of rope...?
daave
26/10/2008
9:26:32 PM
On 26/10/2008 DrDan wrote:
>I was in a climbing gear store yesterday - had a chat with an experienced
>climber

I don't think I have ever met a really " experienced climb " working in a climbing shop!!
I reckon that's Bull about the accidental unclips. Aslong as you have the draw facing the right way for the direction of climbing and the rope isn't backclipped, then its up to you. As said before, depends on how you like to clip. I'm a middle finger through the draw person and I like to have both biners facing the same way.

JamesMc
Online Now
26/10/2008
10:16:55 PM
On 26/10/2008 daave wrote:
>On 26/10/2008 DrDan wrote:
>>I was in a climbing gear store yesterday - had a chat with an experienced
>>climber
>
>I don't think I have ever met a really " experienced climb " working in
>a climbing shop!!
>I reckon that's Bull about the accidental unclips. Aslong as you have
>the draw facing the right way for the direction of climbing and the rope
>isn't backclipped, then its up to you. As said before, depends on how you
>like to clip. I'm a middle finger through the draw person and I like to
>have both biners facing the same way.

I've met plenty really eperienced climbers (not climbs) working in gear shops. Kim Carrigan, Keith Egerton, Martin Tatton, John Chapman, Glen Robbins...

As for accidental unclips, an ex climbing colleague of mine at work told me that it happened to him years ago. He had a shot at a bolt protected route at Freuhauf (Hobart) and fell of. He lowered off past one side of the rope from the belayer to the bolt, had a rest, then climbed up past the other side of the rope from the belayer. He fell again, and landed on his arse when the rope unclipped.


JamesMc
Atomic_Tomatoes
26/10/2008
11:37:31 PM
Thanks guys.
It's been about 5 years since I climbed so I'm slowly getting back into it and updating some of my gear (a set of quickdraws included).

Macciza
26/10/2008
11:43:30 PM
Yes it can make a difference and yes there is a reasoning behind each orientation.
"Classic - opposing directions was how Aussies used to do most of their runners because of the old
standard bolt plate ie not angled. Clip downwards then rotate to put the spine against the rock.
"Modern sport method - facing same way clipped to standard ringbolt means the top biner rotates closer
to the spine rather than gate in off-axis fall. Also handy sometimes clipping wires in corner-cracks . . .
Ultimately have some both ways for the various reasons and at various lengths and use as needed . . .


Capt_mulch
27/10/2008
8:16:00 AM
Maybe the message to DrDan was confused. I am able to repeatedly demonstrate to people that if the biner holding the rope is not facing to the 'outside' of the climb, the rope can unclip in a fall. I'm under the assumption that this is also a good reason to use screw gates (on the rope end) when you attach a long runner to a piece of pro - you don't have as much control over which way the biner will end up oriented.
widewetandslippery
27/10/2008
8:35:49 AM
My 2 cents.

Buy extenders which are not tight on the biner. Clipping bolt plates will often leave you in a situation where you will want to spin the biner through the plate. If the extender is tight or thick rotation will not be as easy. I once had a extender fall off the top biner because it got caught on the gate hinge and in pumped stupidity I thought f--- I'm going up. I didn't, promptly fell off and sling unclips from biner.

You can always rig a loose extender tight with a castration ring (I personally don't use these as I find anything to do with castration worrying) or elastic hair bands from the chemist.

As to orientation of biners on the extender I think it does not really matter if you use long, thin and floppy extenders with the rope biner secured in place as described above.
Atomic_Tomatoes
27/10/2008
8:50:55 AM
Thanks Macca,
Carrot Bolts and Bolt plates with Quickdraws was going to be my next question.

If using 45deg. Bolt plates then I would imagine the both gates would be facing out from the rock (I know there would be some rotation but the natural position of the biner seems to be facing out). Is there a greater risk of the rope unclipping than if you used the 90deg. angled plate where there seems to be more likely that the biner sits flatter against the rock, allowing you to position the bent gate to face the opposite direction of you travel.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27/10/2008
2:51:01 PM
>Which way do you have your karabiner gates on your quickdraws?

NOT like this.

There are 12 messages in this topic.

 

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