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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
Author
belay loops?

master of drung
30/07/2008
4:42:24 PM
have had a bit of a search of a couple of different climbing forums without satisfaction. so at the risk of sounding stupid what is a belay loop for and why are they preferered to clipping both the waist and leg loops? Is it as simple as trying to avoid 3 way loading because if this is the case they seem disproportionately popular. I can't help feeling I am missing something.

D.Lodge
30/07/2008
5:00:25 PM
The belay loop IS the place to clip your screwgate. It is the strongest part of your harness and should be used as such the leg loop and waist band loop is used just for tying in NOT for screwgates.

wallwombat
30/07/2008
5:05:42 PM
The belay loop is for belaying or abseiling off. You can also belay with a biner threaded through the waist and leg loops if you want. I have done this in the past, but don't really bother nowadays.

It's more important to TIE IN through the waist and leg loops, so as to provide more redundancy to the system.

The belay loop helps distance the belay device from the harness or anything that might get jammed in it, such as clothes or your todger. If this happens it can be a real pain.

I'm sure you will get a better answer from someone else. I've just finished work and am a bit tired , so that will have to do.

mousey
30/07/2008
6:42:04 PM
On 30/07/2008 master of drung wrote:
>at the risk of sounding stupid what is a belay loop for

it is the loop for belaying.

possibly abseiling, also.

master of drung
30/07/2008
6:48:17 PM
On 30/07/2008 mousey wrote:
>On 30/07/2008 master of drung wrote:
>>at the risk of sounding stupid what is a belay loop for
>
>it is the loop for belaying.
>
>possibly abseiling, also.
>

I'll set em up you knock em down.

Eduardo Slabofvic
30/07/2008
9:36:11 PM
What about my harness that doesn't have a belay loop?

Sabu
Online Now
30/07/2008
11:39:16 PM
when have you ever belayed anyone...?

evanbb
31/07/2008
6:56:04 AM
On 30/07/2008 wallwombat wrote:
>It's more important to TIE IN through the waist and leg loops, so as to
>provide more redundancy to the system.

Also, if you're the sort of person that does this, thread your daisy chain/safety through the leg/waist loop, rather than the belay loop.

A fairly famous American climber made this mistake, and paid dearly. His daisy was chaffing his belay loop, and under the daisy so he couldn't see it. Abseilled off a oute one arvo and the belay loop gave up, allowing him to fall freely to the deck. Not good.

Eduardo Slabofvic
31/07/2008
10:04:47 AM
On 30/07/2008 Sabu wrote:
>when have you ever belayed anyone...?

O.K., good point, but...
devlin66
31/07/2008
10:22:56 AM
I have often wondered where the word belay came from......

snip:

"Belay \Be*lay"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Belaid, Belayed; p. pr.
& vb. n. Belaying.] [For senses 1 & 2, D. beleggen to
cover, belay; akin to E. pref. be-, and lay to place: for
sense 3, OE. beleggen, AS. belecgan. See pref. Be-, and
Lay to place.]
1. To lay on or cover; to adorn. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

Jacket . . . belayed with silver lace. --Spenser.
[1913 Webster]

2. (Naut.) To make fast, as a rope, by taking several turns
with it round a pin, cleat, or kevel. --Totten.
[1913 Webster]

3. To lie in wait for with a view to assault. Hence: to block
up or obstruct. [Obs.] --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

Belay thee! Stop.
[1913 Webster]"

There you go.
citationx
31/07/2008
10:23:30 AM
On 31/07/2008 evanbb wrote:
>On 30/07/2008 wallwombat wrote:
>>It's more important to TIE IN through the waist and leg loops, so as
>to
>>provide more redundancy to the system.
>
>Also, if you're the sort of person that does this, thread your daisy chain/safety
>through the leg/waist loop, rather than the belay loop.
>
>A fairly famous American climber made this mistake, and paid dearly. His
>daisy was chaffing his belay loop, and under the daisy so he couldn't see
>it. Abseilled off a oute one arvo and the belay loop gave up, allowing
>him to fall freely to the deck. Not good.

I had spoken to someone about this, i'd be interested in seeing a photo of what state his loop was in. reports had it that his belay loop (and thus his harness in general) needed replacing for some "two years" before it finally gave way.
given that the belay loop is rated somewhere between 22KN-30KN, it's just as strong as any rope you'll use. that's a good enough reason for me to keep on using my belay loop.

muki
31/07/2008
10:29:42 AM
Evan, if you are making a reference to Tod Skinner then you should know that the daisy was not
covering the damaged belay loop, it was clearly visible, and was commented on by his partner, to
witch Tod replied "Yeah it's pretty shitty I know, but I've got a new harness coming in the mail"
Not soon enough!
The damage was accumulative, and was incurred through many long climbs on rough Yosemite
Granite where the belay loop is in the front line of any rubbing against crystals, that and the fact that
Tod was out there almost every day, bolting, working climbs, doing huge rappels, and even bigger
jummar ascents on the huge slabs over in the ditch, causing the damage to the belay loop, his death
was a tragedy, and in the real world, no way is it possible for a daisy to cause the amount of chaffing
necessary to fail a belay loop!
But one practice I have seen that causes this type of damage to the main tie in points fairly quickly, is
to take the climbing rope through the harness twice in a loop before finishing the knot, this causes the
loop of rope to cinch tight in a fall, and in doing so rub the harness very aggressively, generating heat
through friction, this is a bad practice and climbers should be made aware of this and know the facts!

D.Lodge
31/07/2008
10:39:11 AM
As far as i understand from reading several reports it was the fact that his daisy chain was stopping the belay loop from freely moving around, therefore concentrating the wear on one localised area that lead to the breakage. Check your gear often and retire sooner rather than later.

sliamese
31/07/2008
10:51:40 AM
i have a little 5mm loop backing up the belay loop on my harness. i know its not really neccessary but the first wall i did in the ditch was Leaning tower, after dan and todd had accidents i kinda felt a bit of piece of mind!
stonetroll
15/08/2008
6:38:13 PM
Inresting queastoin 'bout belay loops. To understand the answer ,one needs to know what is " cross loading ". Have a look on any UIAA , CE rated carabinner and youll see a rateing for load along the spine, rateing for gate open, and rateing for "cross loading". This cross loading is usually a lot lower rateing (as low as 1/3) of the 'binners' closed gate spine load rateing. When a 'binner is connected to a harness via leg and waist loops (that can spread apart from top to bottom of 'binner) then into a rope or belay device that may now be loading the centre of the binner "crooss loading" , you've created the weakest link. By clipping the binner into one loop (belay loop) you minimise the chance of cross loading.

Capt_mulch
15/08/2008
7:02:57 PM
On 30/07/2008 master of drung wrote:
>what is a belay loop for
>and why are they preferered to clipping both the waist and leg loops?
With a biner through the belay loop (and the belay device clipped into the biner), it orients the belay device correctly. If you put a biner through the waist loop (etc), the belay device ends up being oriented 90 degrees the wrong way (sideways).

I must admit, I hate hanging off it when feeding the rope through the rings at the top of a sports route - I always put a screw gate biner through the waist loop and clip the draws into that.
stonetroll
15/08/2008
7:45:23 PM
Yeh I'm hearin' ya 'bout the 90 degree orientation thing, that's a good point. Hay but don't you love the creeeeik, crraaerk and gentle groaning noise of the stitching bedding in on a new harness when you're hangin' 80m off the deck ?

Capt_mulch
15/08/2008
7:51:06 PM
On 15/08/2008 stonetroll wrote:
> Hay but don't you love the creeeeik, crraaerk and gentle groaning
>noise of the stitching bedding in on a new harness when you're hangin'
>80m off the deck ?
You just need Fantini screaming at you from the bottom of the route that you look incompetent and to trust your gear - that got me over it pretty quick...
stonetroll
15/08/2008
8:01:32 PM
Yeh well if John says you can trust it , then it must be good ( chuckle chukle).

Capt_mulch
15/08/2008
8:05:09 PM
Except that he weighs about 20kg less than me Force=mass x acceleration

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
There are 27 messages in this topic.

 

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