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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author
B or T rated ice tools

climbau
5/07/2006
8:54:35 AM
Can I use a B rated Piolet such as the BD Raven or do I need a T rated Piolet such as the Petzl Cosmique for basic mountaineering including belays?
Cheers for your help
jonorock
5/07/2006
9:55:05 AM
I have used a BD Raven Pro before. It is great tool as it is very light but is no good at all for any type of ice climbing as the head is not heavy enough. I would only use it again if I knew absolutely that there would be no ice on the route.
I would go for a more general mountaineering ice axe (heavier) that will handle some ice climbing. I learnt the hard way expecting no ice on a big route so took the Raven Pro and suffered big time.
psd
5/07/2006
10:27:03 AM
I think the official position is that if you're using your axe in direct belays the shaft should be T rated. You should check out what loads the shafts of the axes you're looking at are rated to and make a judgement call. B rated shafts must withstand at least 2.5kN and T rated shafts must withstand at least 3.5kN over a 50cm shaft. Something to consider is whether, realistically, the axe will give way before the snow does!

climbau
5/07/2006
1:56:13 PM
Cool, sounds like I'll be searching out T-rated.
Thanks for your help guys.
Cheers
Andrew

nmonteith
5/07/2006
2:31:14 PM
I have no idea what the difference between B or T rated is??

Anyway - my first axe was a DMM Raptor
http://knradventuregear.com/ice_snowgear/dmmiceaxes/dmmraptoralp.htm

Really solid contruction, replaceable picks and nice smooth shaft for easy plunging. It is short enough
that i have been able to use it on vertical ice - as well as plodding up snow peaks. A top piece of kit in
my opinion. I reckon you don't want to aim to low in your first axe - as you will quickly want to go into the
steeper stuff once you have the experience. Light wieght 'walking axes' are just useless for anything
remotely techincal.
psd
5/07/2006
2:59:58 PM
On 5/07/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>I have no idea what the difference between B or T rated is??

The difference is the strength of the shaft as above.

>Light wieght 'walking axes'
>are just useless for anything
>remotely techincal.

Agreed - I don't see any point in going for a walking axe either. You want something with a good solid pick, long enough to make plunging the shaft comfortable for you, but not so long that you can't swing it over your head for steep-ish ice.

climbau
5/07/2006
3:42:26 PM
Have been looking at the Petzl Aztarand the BD Rage for swinging overhead.
The petzl is 100grams lighterbut not quite as curved. I was thinking a bit more curve would be better for steeper stuff as I progress but didn't want the extra 200grams.

Paulie
19/07/2006
2:01:39 AM
...unless you're talking about picks, but it's the same case where T is stronger and better for mixed (but offers less easy penetration in hard water ice) than B rated picks (water ice picks).

Paul
ant
19/07/2006
8:14:07 PM
On 5/07/2006 climbau wrote:
>Have been looking at the Petzl Aztarand the BD Rage

The Aztar's are fairly light, and not really up to belting pins or penetrating old alpine ice.

Have a look at the BD Vipers or new DMM equivalent, and get them shipped from overseas (the Vipers cost $200 retail in Canada). Can give you an in depth review of both tools in a few weeks.

I've also got a Charlet Moser Guide traditional axe, which is quite sturdy (i.e. heavy). Never use it these days (and you can borrow it if you like). If I had my time again, I would get a light-weight traditional axe for the snow plods, and a good set of technical tools for everything else.

Paulie
22/07/2006
12:04:55 PM
On 19/07/2006 ant wrote:
>The Aztar's are fairly light, and not really up to belting pins or penetrating old alpine ice.

My aztars are definately very light and you're right about the pin belting (they also have too much flex for secure torquing), but I've never had an issue getting them right in on any type of ice. I definately prefer them to the BD Rages I had in Canada as they are just as effective when used with good technique and don't get you anywhere near as pumped as the Rages will. Not sure about the weight difference between the old Rages and the new Vipers...I would get BD Cobras if I afford them!

>I would get a light-weight traditional axe for the snow plods, and a good set of technical tools for everything else.

This is the option most people are going for in Scotland these days, a lightweight highly curved tool like the Petzl/Charlet Quark is also a sensational and popular option. Just don't expect to use it as a walking stick!

Paulie

climbau
28/07/2006
12:25:13 PM
Cheers for that Paulie and Ant!
Andrew

There are 11 messages in this topic.

 

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