Author |
|
12-Nov-2014 8:38:35 PM
|
Hello all,
I'm moving in to a new rental property soon and will be there a while, so I thought I could build a freestanding garage wall to get some training done.
I won't have room for a proper interesting bouldering wall, so I am going to keep it as training specific as possible. I want a section for HIT strip training, and also some crack simulators if I can fit it in the design somewhere.
As for the structure itself, it would be of great help if any engineers, carpenters, or people who have done it before could let me know if there is anything glaringly wrong with my design. Here is a polished draft of the structure (with full plywood coverage on the climbing wall):
Now I realised that if I wasn't going to have a conventional bouldering wall and only wanted specific training applications, I only needed enough plywood coverage to fit the HIT strip handholds. Which led me to revise the idea of the climbing section so I could fit in a potential crack training section (the structural design remained the same):
So the idea is to have the HIT strips mounted on the centre plywood section, leaving the frame bare on either side. I could then wedge some blocks between the plywood support beams of differing gaps for a crack trainer. The one in the picture is roughly fist sized. There is plenty more room for other crack sizes either side.
Feasible?
PS: There is headboard space to mount hangboard etc.
|
12-Nov-2014 9:02:06 PM
|
Looks like a good design. Standard panelling comes at 2.4 meters so you may want to take this into account.
Also, personally, since you are going to the effort to build this, it will take very little effort to also have some boulder problems in addition to the HIT training element. You will find that only doing HIT might get boring after a while.
In terms of the angle you choose, from your design is it 50 degrees? That's very steep. Just make sure you choose an angle that is not impossible. From the research I did on my bouldering wall 40 degrees appeared more optimal.
Lastly, behind the wall, you may like to integrate some storage shelves to take advantage of the space and also provide some additional strengthening.
Good luck with your project.
John K.
|
12-Nov-2014 9:05:20 PM
|
I have a small woody in the garage which used to have HIT strips on it. They got pretty boring pretty quickly, so they have now gone and the wall is covered in normal holds.
The wall is only 2 sheets of ply end on end at 45 degrees, but this is plenty to make interesting problems.
|
12-Nov-2014 9:35:08 PM
|
Yes I made it 50 degrees, based on the advice given on the Nicros website, although I might revise this down to 45.
I'm not too worried about making this a purely training wall, as I have plenty of nearby outdoor climbing and bouldering.
Good idea with the storage shelves!
|
12-Nov-2014 9:53:21 PM
|
Hi Zarb, nice drawing! As far as the structure goes I don't think the top triangle is necessary. The don't add any strength And instead of those horizontal beams I think its better strength wise to have a vertical 4*2 beam every 600mm across.
I'm sure you can easily do a couple of cracks and still fill out the rest with ply for plenty of bouldering. In fact, if you want your HIT in the middle and a crack either side, just put two 4*2's for each crack spaced a third of the way in from each side, and they will give the structural strength for the wall. Add strips of ply inside the crack to vary the width if you like. Then fill the rest in with ply and your done.
For bouldering a 300mm kickboard makes more use of dead space at the bottom. Also for bouldering best angle is between 30-40 degrees. Any steeper and the holds have to be too juggy, unless you can do V12.
Hang boards are really good value for training. Throw a boulder circuit around the wall you can barely do 2 laps on, then repeat a few times, is good value for small wall.
Hope that makes sense, good luck with the project.
|
12-Nov-2014 10:08:50 PM
|
Upper triangle to rear not required.
More ply to face or rear will brace diagonally.
I'd do steel main frame. Weld end sections. Bolt on horizontals. Much lighter and robust. Can go outside or be dismantled for transport if needed.
|
12-Nov-2014 10:27:09 PM
|
Love the idea of incorporating crack machines, been wanting to do something similar at my place but am limited on space. If you're going to the trouble of building something you may as well add in space for a few boulder problems that you could build a circuit out of.
|
13-Nov-2014 6:57:32 AM
|
Second the need for a 250-300mm footer. You won't be able to use the bottom of the wall otherwise. Very pleased that someone pointed this out when I built my woody. Would have been a waste at the bottom otherwise.
|
13-Nov-2014 7:21:25 AM
|
45-55+ degrees is good for HIT but aside from the other comments, having bouldering holds on the wall would be useful for warming up - just doing cardio before HIT won't cut it. Also, frankly, HIT is quite boring (like hangboarding) so there's the variety thing too.
I wouldn't be *too* concerned with the angle being steep, there's plenty of juggy holds around and it has the advantage of eventually being able to set very hard problems.
|
13-Nov-2014 8:28:27 AM
|
On 13/11/2014 davidn wrote:
>45-55+ degrees is good for HIT but aside from the other comments, having
>bouldering holds on the wall would be useful for warming up - just doing
>cardio before HIT won't cut it. Also, frankly, HIT is quite boring (like
>hangboarding) so there's the variety thing too.
>
>I wouldn't be *too* concerned with the angle being steep, there's plenty
>of juggy holds around and it has the advantage of eventually being able
>to set very hard problems.
I agree with lower triangle only and starting the angled section off the ground - kick board + allowance for crash mat thickness. The joins you've sketched look like half-laps, I'd go for running the timbers full past each other at the joins and bolting through both, easier and quicker though wouldn't look as nice.
|
13-Nov-2014 8:44:00 AM
|
Ok so I've tried to picture and understand all the suggestions, and did a quick play around this morning before work.
Hopefully I understood correctly...
View from the rear showing structure:
View from the front showing the plywood coverage, "cracks", headboard and kickboard.
The building materials themselves are not to scale, I just over-estimated the thickness and will refine that one I head to Bunnings and check it out.
As for the joins, I'll was going to use commercial framing connectors and bolt through where I can.
|
13-Nov-2014 9:46:49 AM
|
Another option for joins if you have plywood off-cuts it to cut a triangle bigger than the join (300x300x460ish) and screw & glue or bolt it to one or two faces of the joint.
|
13-Nov-2014 9:54:19 AM
|
One issue I've encountered with some crack machines is they were too shallow. I think they were around 120mm deep and to me it just didn't feel good.
|
13-Nov-2014 10:27:55 AM
|
It looks like you've made the angle shallower? Have you considered putting something together that has variable angles across two panels i.e. 35 and 55? That'd be good for the crack machines too. And while the crack machines are just conceptual at this stage, it might be worth looking at something either of variable width or, if you can manage it, with a manually moveable width.
I've always liked the look of Sonnie Trotter's crack machine, though I've yet to make one.
|
13-Nov-2014 10:29:56 AM
|
On 13/11/2014 davidn wrote:
>It looks like you've made the angle shallower? Have you considered putting
>something together that has variable angles across two panels i.e. 35 and
>55? That'd be good for the crack machines too. And while the crack machines
>are just conceptual at this stage, it might be worth looking at something
>either of variable width or, if you can manage it, with a manually moveable
>width.
>
>I've always liked the look of Sonnie Trotter's crack machine, though I've
>yet to make one.
Even though I'm no expert on the matter, can't climb that hard and seem to be perpetually semi-injured, I disagree with the kickboard sentiments here - it just makes the start moves too easy, and on a short wall every move counts! Mine starts at 45 degrees from the ground, just pull the mats back a bit...
|
13-Nov-2014 1:48:01 PM
|
If it was me, I would still suggest changing those dark blue/grey crack verticals into continuous lengths of timber. Then you won't need any of those horizontals, except for the top and bottom ones. Would be easier to build/ less timber. Mind you, I'm not a builder either.
|
14-Nov-2014 11:05:35 PM
|
On 13/11/2014 f_abe wrote:
>
>Even though I'm no expert on the matter, can't climb that hard and seem
>to be perpetually semi-injured, I disagree with the kickboard sentiments
>here - it just makes the start moves too easy, and on a short wall every
>move counts! Mine starts at 45 degrees from the ground, just pull the mats
>back a bit...
No holds on the vertical kicker on mine. Only holds on the angle. Its just high enough to keep your heel off the ground. Hard to describe, easy with one of mikl's drawings - I'm not that talented though.
|
18-Feb-2015 6:14:32 PM
|
Sorry to revive this post.
I have finally moved in to the new place, and the garage is enormous, so the climbing wall plan is a go go.
I've made some final revisions to the back support section of the wall:
1. Removed every second horizontal support beam. It's a little bit more pared down.
2. I've made the vertical beams continuous to make the crack simulator uninterrupted, rather than the horizontal beams in previous designs. I'm not sure what this will mean for the load on the wall.
With those changes, would it still be a strong wall? If all is well, I'm going to start on the frame this weekend hopefully.
|
18-Feb-2015 8:11:16 PM
|
Need to chuck some tiger snakes around the back of those crack simulators
|
18-Feb-2015 8:23:53 PM
|
Here's what I'd do.
-Make the top beam longer than the width of the wall. Fix the vertical front supports at the ends of this beam so they are not right next to the wall. Means you won't run into them if you are doing dynamic moves to holds near the edge, so it gives you more useful wall area.
-Better yet, ditch the supports and use the roof trusses...
-Run the inclined beams for the crack machine full length down to the base of the wall. Will help with rigidity.
-Think about standard ply sizes (1200 by 2400). Looks like you might have already figured to sheet this up with 2 sheets, plus one more for the kicker.
-Go taller if you have the room. Never trained on a garage woody that was too tall.
-Get some good mats...
|