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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 39
Author
self-unclipping quickdraw
daave
29/10/2008
6:10:46 PM
Was out at Centennial Glen today with Olbert and was on Madge Mcdonald - 12m 25. Was going for the redpoint with the draws already up. As I reached up to the final jugs on the ledge I was a little too pumped and fell. I had expected a nice 1-2m fall but no, I was in for a bit of a longer ride. Next thing I realised, I was upside down just below the first bolt!
As I had fallen, The last quickdraw, inline with where my feet were, decided it would be a nice time to unclip itself which allowed me to get my leg caught behind the rope so I fell and was caught by the next one. Pity the bolts on were a little more spaced than the other climbs of the area.
I came home and got Dad to have a look at my sore spots - Damaged middle finger joint and damaged Rotator Cuff. He reckons I'll be out for the next 6-8 weeks which is a little devastating althought, it could have been ALOT worse.

Looking back, I really have no idea how this actually happened but I can think up a few senarios.

Has anyone else had a similar experience or got any reasons why this may have happend? I always try and face the rope-end of quickdraws with the spine in the direction of the climb but should this be the case for the end in the bolt too?

Cheers.

Capt_mulch
29/10/2008
6:26:11 PM
There are people way more experienced than me who could comment on this, but my question is: what sort of quickdraws were you using? (yes, there is a motive behind my question...)
Olbert
29/10/2008
6:44:26 PM
On 29/10/2008 daave wrote:
>I came home and got Dad to have a look at my sore spots - Damaged middle
>finger joint and damaged Rotator Cuff. He reckons I'll be out for the next
>6-8 weeks which is a little devastating althought, it could have been ALOT
>worse.

Ah cheeseburgers! You'll be right, I wanna see you on the pointy end of your rope crushing Madge Mcdonald the day after my exams finish! No EXCUSES!

Oh and it should be pointed out that the quickdraw unclipped from the bolt not from the rope.
daave
29/10/2008
6:57:25 PM
the quickdraw was a solid gate-wire gate combination with the solid gate through the bolt. Short sling. Brand is faders I think.

Capt_mulch
29/10/2008
7:00:58 PM
So which end unclipped, the wire or the solid??
daave
29/10/2008
7:03:03 PM
The solid gate that was in the bolt unclipped.
Paul
29/10/2008
7:03:30 PM
On 29/10/2008 daave wrote:
>Was out at Centennial Glen today with Olbert and was on Madge Mcdonald
>- 12m 25. Was going for the redpoint with the draws already up. As I reached
>up to the final jugs on the ledge I was a little too pumped and fell. I
>had expected a nice 1-2m fall but no, I was in for a bit of a longer ride.
>Next thing I realised, I was upside down just below the first bolt!
>As I had fallen, The last quickdraw, inline with where my feet were, decided
>it would be a nice time to unclip itself which allowed me to get my leg
>caught behind the rope so I fell and was caught by the next one. Pity the
>bolts on were a little more spaced than the other climbs of the area.
>I came home and got Dad to have a look at my sore spots - Damaged middle
>finger joint and damaged Rotator Cuff. He reckons I'll be out for the next
>6-8 weeks which is a little devastating althought, it could have been ALOT
>worse.
>
>Looking back, I really have no idea how this actually happened but I can
>think up a few senarios.
>
>Has anyone else had a similar experience or got any reasons why this may
>have happend? I always try and face the rope-end of quickdraws with the
>spine in the direction of the climb but should this be the case for the
>end in the bolt too?
>
>Cheers.

Was it a wire gate being used with a removable bolt plate? these can allow removable bolt plates to slide off carrots.

Was it a bolt plate or U, ring etc.? It is possibe that an incorrectly orientated bolt plate rotating could place pressure on the gate.

or a back clipped draw could cause the quickdraw to be flipped over (prior to the fall).

muki
29/10/2008
7:05:24 PM
OK that's the bit of info that was needed to help me answer your question,did the bolt have a fixed
hanger on it, or was it a ubolt/ringbolt.... the top biner was rotated against the hanger plate/ringbolt and
was forced open in the twisting action, this can cause the biner to disengage from the bolt without the fall
even hapening, let alone the extra force involved in falling past the bolt.
This usually happens when you do rising traverse from one side of the bolt to the other as you climb
past it, it's important to set this up for yourself to get an idea how easy it can happen !
To do this just get a padlock and clip it with a quickdraw, then do a 180 rotation in the direction of the
gate.
See what happens!
Olbert
29/10/2008
7:13:12 PM
>Was it a wire gate being used with a removable bolt plate? these can allow
>removable bolt plates to slide off carrots.

Nope, solid gate end in a solid ring bolt. Not a carrot or fixed hanger, and not a wire gate(which was clipped through the rope)

>Was it a bolt plate or U, ring etc.? It is possibe that an incorrectly
>orientated bolt plate rotating could place pressure on the gate.

Ring bolt.

>or a back clipped draw could cause the quickdraw to be flipped over (prior
>to the fall).
>

Not sure
Olbert
29/10/2008
7:20:59 PM
On 29/10/2008 bomber pro wrote:
>OK that's the bit of info that was needed to help me answer your question,did
>the bolt have a fixed
>hanger on it, or was it a ubolt/ringbolt.... the top biner was rotated
>against the hanger plate/ringbolt
Ring bolt

>was forced open in the twisting action, this can cause the biner to disengage
>from the bolt without the fall
>even hapening, let alone the extra force involved in falling past the
>bolt.
>This usually happens when you do rising traverse from one side of the
>bolt to the other as you climb
>past it

The climb did have a rising traverse from the third to the fourth bolt diagonally up and right. This continues past the fourth bolt to a hold a couple of feet(give or take) on the further side of the bolt(up and right). The climb then heads back left and up for a metre, metre and a half(give or take). It was after this mini traverse back left, when daave went for the reach up to the finish ledge, that he fell. Surprised the shit out of me when i could clearly see his face not that far above me, before he swung back into the wall, hitting it, back first, upsidedown.
hipster
29/10/2008
7:35:49 PM
Are you 100% sure he didn't kick the ring bolt/draw with his feet as he fell. Because if he fell and had his feet nowhere near the rope the incident of the draw unclipping should in no way have forced him upside down, he should have just fallen further.
Not long ago on an FA I was slumped on a ringbolt lamenting the runout to the next clip. As I climbed on I heard a metallic twang, and looked down to see the quickdraw I'd just passed had unclipped from the bolt and had fallen to the clipped draw below. Nervous times they were climbing to the next draw!! I could only summise that I'd somehow displaced the draw with my foot as I climbed upwards.
Bad luck on blowing the tick too :-(
daave
29/10/2008
8:23:50 PM
Hmmm, yeah even though the injuries are climb preventing, it is still annoying that i didn't tick it :(
I was thinking if it oculd have been my foot that dislodged the biner, but my foot was about half a metre left of the bolt so I dont think I would have kicked it.

I think that as the quickdraw unclipped, the change in rope angle in relation to the last draw could have meant that my foot was now behind the rope. Or it could just have been that I was flagging behind the rope when pumped...I dont remember.

It sounds like the explanation with the twisting biner sounsd quite plausible as it was on a slight rising traverse.

Anyone else experience this or seen it happen?

muki
29/10/2008
9:02:37 PM
Yeah, seen it happen and told the leader before it became an issue, also on the supertopo site there
was a guy who had a similar experience when his draw came off a climb he was on, the big fall that
resulted was also very unexpected, it can very easily happen to anyone, but there are a few
ingredients to this recipe for disaster!

1: Short or stiff draws.

2: If the top (bolt) biner's gate faces the direction of the climbers progress past it.

3: If the upward rising traverse is finished with a move back in the opposite direction.

If you combine all these ingredients, then it's almost certain to occur, the old back clip knowledge has
been around a while but not many people know about this one, but to be on the safe side just clip the
top biner facing away from your intended direction of travel past it, and have a short dogbone by all
means, but try to make it a floppy or flexible one, the stiff dogbones are a major factor in this accident.
Safe climbing all BP

D.Lodge
29/10/2008
9:30:45 PM
mate was watching me climb throught the crux above the first bolt and the draw twisted around so that the sling was on the gate biner horizontal at the top of the ring. Luckily i did not fall but scary afterwards but
Olbert
29/10/2008
9:43:39 PM
>1: Short or stiff draws.
This was actually one of the longer draws of the set, and the beaner on the bolt end had plenty of room to move

>2: If the top (bolt) biner's gate faces the direction of the climbers
>progress past it.

>3: If the upward rising traverse is finished with a move back in the opposite
>direction.
Definitely on this climb!

Sabu
29/10/2008
10:35:44 PM
On 29/10/2008 daave wrote:
>Was out at Centennial Glen today with Olbert and was on Madge Mcdonald
>- 12m 25. Was going for the redpoint with the draws already up. As I reached
>up to the final jugs on the ledge I was a little too pumped and fell. I
>had expected a nice 1-2m fall but no, I was in for a bit of a longer ride.
>Next thing I realised, I was upside down just below the first bolt!
>As I had fallen, The last quickdraw, inline with where my feet were, decided
>it would be a nice time to unclip itself which allowed me to get my leg
>caught behind the rope so I fell and was caught by the next one. Pity the
>bolts on were a little more spaced than the other climbs of the area.
>I came home and got Dad to have a look at my sore spots - Damaged middle
>finger joint and damaged Rotator Cuff. He reckons I'll be out for the next
>6-8 weeks which is a little devastating althought, it could have been ALOT
>worse.
Cliche question here but were you wearing a helmet? as this shows how easily you can
end up upside down with the back of your head facing the rock. As you said, it could
have been worse!

ajfclark
29/10/2008
10:45:55 PM
On 29/10/2008 daave wrote:
>Has anyone else had a similar experience or got any reasons why this may have happend?

Here's some ways to do this from http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml :




[edit: Original site has been redesigned. Page is archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/19990908005419/http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml ]
daave
30/10/2008
7:55:47 AM
On 29/10/2008 Sabu wrote:

>Cliche question here but were you wearing a helmet?

Nope I wasn't wearing a helmet because I was just thinking...hey this is just the Glen, not like its the grose (where, by the way, we always wear helmets). Makes you think though...Sport cragging can really lull you into a false sense of security!!!

May as well move down to Araps, where wearing a helmet seems to be more commonplace...
widewetandslippery
30/10/2008
8:26:45 AM
I had the same happen on Trix Roughly, last bolt when it had carrots. I put it down to short stiff draws.

tnd
30/10/2008
9:35:53 AM
If you're red-pointing short sport routes like this, it's not a bad idea, once the gear is up, to replace critical quickdraws with a single large screw-lock - providing the clipping hold is good enough to allow you the few seconds to tighten up the sleeve on the carabiner once you've clipped it. This should ensure things stay in place and has the bonus of slightly reducing the length of any fall. Rope drag shouldn't be an issue on a 12m route like Madge.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 39
There are 39 messages in this topic.

 

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