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QUT and affiliates sued for $8m Kangaroo Point 29-May-2017 At 9:14:21 AM Wendy

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Wow, even M9 gets it and I don't know that he's been sport climbing in his life ...

Changing words and practices around just makes for more possibility of accidents. That's why I don't use "secure" or "off belay" to say that I am safe. Similarly why I don't say I am safe at an anchor unless I want to be completely taken off belay.

Climbing safety is a responsibility of both climber and belayer. It's kind of silly to be arguing about that. As a belayer, I check my climber is tied in and ready, I monitor that they have appropriate gear, rope management and clipping and if I have any doubt about any calls, I stay on belay until clarified. At a sport crag, I expect them to clip and lower. If they say something that suggests otherwise, like "safe" I ask for clarification - a simple are you going to rap or lower - and if they say lowering, I conclude they are one of these misguided people who need some education about calls, keep them on belay and explain the problem when they get down.

As a climber, I check that my belayer is on belay and ready, I trust them to remain that way through out the climb and to let me know if they notice a problem such as the rope is caught around a nubbin, i've missed a bolt or backclipped in the midst of putting 5 runners in the space of 1m. When I get to anchors, I clip and lower. As opposed to when I am falling (although you would know by the screams anyway) I give some warning that I am ready to weight the rope such as "Ok, Joe Bloggs, got me?" or "on you". Even if I was to say take, I trust that my belayer would not be stupid enough to think I said safe, because no one should ever say safe at an anchor where lowering is the expected practice! I expect them to ask for clarification and remain on belay whenever there is doubt. I also expect to hear some response such as "ok wendy got you".

If I am somewhere where the norm is not clip and lower and I intend to clip and lower, then I will explain that before I leave the ground (ie, lots of the anchors that Damo hates so much at Araps). Ditto if belaying, when this is an option, I ask which they intend to do.

Climbing is about mutual responsibility, clear communication and if in doubt, covering all bases with the action least likely to do more that cause tedious rope handling - eg leaving someone on belay and discovering they are hauling up lots of rope, but nevertheless, staying on belay until clarified because they might just be pulling up rope for an anchor or running it out on easy ground.

All this is basically irrelevant to the original case. We have no idea what happened. Climbing clubs can be anything from complete beginners to groups of experienced climbers on a trip together. These situations are rather different. If someone has previously demonstrated they are competent to be left to clean a belay and rap, that's the appropriate thing to do in that situation and that was the game plan, likely the error was the climber's fault. If they were not competent to clean and lower and were left to do so, that would be irresponsible on behalf of the more experienced climbers regardless of being in a club or not. If they had a fuchup of communication because of these myriad ideas of what to do at an anchor, we as a community need to encourage standardisation of calls and procedures in the way we have managed to for other calls and procedures, and reinforce that both parties are responsible for ensuring they have played their role in maintaining safety.