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Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 24
Author
Dangerous habits at Point Perp on the weekend.
One Day Hero
30-Sep-2014
11:38:55 AM
I'm not exactly a safety freak, but there was stuff going on at the point this w/e which I just couldn't watch. Mostly people (medium-full blown bumblies) unroped at the edge of the cliff........and we're not talking about lying down and peeking over, this was no-bullshit standing with a foot 5cm from the edge and leaning over to take a photo :O

I also came across a dude who was attempting to suicide by abseil. He'd rigged off a single hex stuffed under a boulder, perfectly equalised to a thread about the thickness of 2 fingers made of slightly compressed sand.......and he'd managed to ignore the cam-eating split in the cliff less than 2m from this insane death anchor.

Now, I understand that some people get tired of life and feel the need to end it all, but could you please fuching kill yourselves in a manner which doesn't get climbing banned at one of the best cliffs in the country? Here's a couple of tips;

-Learn the fuch how to deal with cliff tops. I feel that all the stupid lower-off sport climbing has led to a situation where a whole bunch of "experienced" climbers have never been to the top of a fuching cliff before!

-Hexes are pretty shit at the point, you need cams. Buy a bunch of cams and learn how they work.

-Bring a separate fuching rap rope, and top-belay anyone who is top-roping routes. I think most of the dodgy rigging was caused by people falling back on "plan A" of top-roping while bottom belaying.......which means they had to use shitty anchors because the good anchors are too far back for their 4m rigging slings.

-For "experienced" people taking groups of bumblies down and then leaving them unattended at the top.....for fuch's sake, rig some anchors and put your group on leashes. They will wander up to the edge to check what's going on, it's extremely likely that one of them will eat shit.

end rant
Hikingoz
30-Sep-2014
12:06:03 PM
What wall were you at?
maxdacat
30-Sep-2014
12:21:55 PM
On 30/09/2014 Hikingoz wrote:
>What wall were you at?

The wailing wall by the sounds of it.

sbm
30-Sep-2014
12:53:40 PM
I was gunna make a sarcastic remark, but honestly beginners at Pt Perp spook me as well. I'm actually pretty strongly against big beginner and even intermediate trips from the UNSW club going there (they weren't there this weekend) but they tended to happen anyway. Personally I don't want to take responsibility for someone there unless they have a grade 16 minimum (preferably 18) and have seconded trad climbs before and multipitch experience.

"Can't we just top-rope easy routes?" well...yes and no...top-roping there is more serious than leading at Thompsons Point and requires more skill.

People want to go there though and fair enough, it is an amazing place. That's why "Room with a View" is so popular despite being 6m of very average climbing all the way down the ass end of the crag.

(Amazes me that someone's willing to rap off a two point anchor there. The first time I build a trad anchor there it had like 10 pieces and I spent half an hour agonizing over it)






rodw
30-Sep-2014
1:13:15 PM
I don't think what person grades can do comes into it..I've seen some serious suspect shit being done by both low and high graded climbers, both trad and sport too...I just stay away from crowds these days..hanging around for a chopper rescue would just fuch up my Sundays.

Though ODH constantly telling people to harden up get out there and take risks etc ..then whinges when people step out of their comfort zone......wtf????
PThomson
30-Sep-2014
1:25:17 PM
And here's a photo of the finale from the previous trip I did to Point Perp, and how it ends if someone makes a mistake (despite these two being HIGHLY experienced and very strong climbers, attempting a route that isn't dangerous at all).



Speaking the Site Manager for the Defence Force while this rescue was taking place, one of the profound things he said to me was some like: "despite all the people coming here with a death wish and doing all the wrong things, somehow there's never been an accident to this scale on the range. There will be fallout from it, once the resulting investigation is completed."

Thanks muchly to the continuing train of clueless bumblies at the Point for doing their best to ensure whatever ramifications do eventuate, they're the hashest they can possibly be.


sbm
30-Sep-2014
1:32:26 PM
On 30/09/2014 rodw wrote:
>I don't think what person grades can do comes into it

It absolutely does. If you have to spend an hour sitting on the rope, inching up the easiest route at a rap-in area, you shouldn't be there.

>Though ODH constantly telling people to harden up get out there and take
>risks etc ..then whinges when people step out of their comfort zone......wtf????

After a few near misses and minor hits I don't like to push beginners like I used to. People should know their limits. But they should also learn how to top rope instead of complaining there's not enough easy well bolted sport routes near Sydney.
widewetandslippery
30-Sep-2014
1:59:57 PM
On 30/09/2014 sbm wrote:
>On 30/09/2014 rodw wrote:
>>I don't think what person grades can do comes into it
>
>It absolutely does. If you have to spend an hour sitting on the rope,
>inching up the easiest route at a rap-in area, you shouldn't be there.
>


I don't think it does. There are plenty of people who climb grade 12 that have far more experience than those climbing in the high 20s.

The good Dr
30-Sep-2014
2:34:32 PM
Goddam Fuchin' safety freak!!

rodw
30-Sep-2014
4:00:09 PM
>After a few near misses and minor hits I don't like to push beginners
>like I used to. People should know their limits.

So okay for you to have learned by such experiences but not others?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety, and if i see someone fuking up Ill tell them my opinion etc, up to them to take note or not, just thought it funny ODH whinged about people trying stuff outside comfort zone...more a case be careful of what you wish for me thinks.

sbm
30-Sep-2014
5:24:19 PM
>I don't think it does. There are plenty of people who climb grade 12 that
>have far more experience than those climbing in the high 20s.

Oh sure. But to be clear, I'm talking just about the Point here, a rap-in climb out area with very few easy clean low grade routes.

On 30/09/2014 rodw wrote:
>>After a few near misses and minor hits I don't like to push beginners
>>like I used to. People should know their limits.
>
>So okay for you to have learned by such experiences but not others?
>

No they can learn by whatever experiences they want. Key word "they", not "me". So when I go "hey want to try lead this?" and someone says "Aah I dunno it looks a bit hard" instead of going "Nah it's a fing sweet route, harden up and just try it you pussy, you're always gunna be a crappy gym climber if you don't try harder stuff on lead" I say "cool" and let them pick something to do that they're actually psyched on.

Snacks
30-Sep-2014
5:27:01 PM
One of the funnier near misses I've seen is of someone placing the biner of a draw entirely over the ring bolt they were clipping so it was just resting on top... it was on the first bolt...

Don't know how the eagle eyed belayer could have missed it ;)
martym
30-Sep-2014
9:25:10 PM
I think the one thing many people truly don't understand about the point is that you can't just walk away once you're down. Perhaps it's the "someone will rescue me" mentality discussed in other threads?
But just like the Grose, once you're down - you climb out, or you climb out.
One Day Hero
30-Sep-2014
11:17:48 PM
On 30/09/2014 rodw wrote:
>Though ODH constantly telling people to harden up get out there and take
>risks etc ..then whinges when people step out of their comfort zone......wtf????

These people weren't out of their fuching comfort zone, they were totally chilled. I'm pretty keen on the idea of beginners balancing their lack of skills with an excess of fear. Seeing climbers wandering around with bugger all of either creeps me out a bit.
ropedonkey
1-Oct-2014
7:26:56 PM
My jaunt to the Point on the same weekend. Saw me come to the aid of two separate parties getting there doubled over rap/climbing ropes getting stuck and unable to pull them..
I am not sure where all the teaching comes from but I heard the word I need to rap off the focal point and another bunch were belaying off the power point.
mikllaw
1-Oct-2014
8:31:25 PM
Some of these beginners don't know what the focal length of their belay is. But there's a power point on the subject.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2-Oct-2014
7:05:33 AM
On 1/10/2014 ropedonkey wrote:
>My jaunt to the Point on the same weekend. Saw me come to the aid of two
>separate parties getting there doubled over rap/climbing ropes getting
>stuck and unable to pull them..
>I am not sure where all the teaching comes from but I heard the word I
>need to rap off the focal point and another bunch were belaying off the
>power point.

They weren't leaving an abseil rope in place to prusik out if the climbing proved beyond them for whatever reason?

Alternatively it would seem they were equalising anchors with a cordelette, but didn't have enough experience to have last abseiler ensure the ropes ran free, particularly if an abrupt edge is involved, when committing to the abseil? ...
Hmm. Top-roping from the bottom.
It would also be interesting depending on rope/pitch lengths involved, if they were top-roping using a combination of static and dynamic(?); belayer bypassing the joining knot etc.
climberman
2-Oct-2014
7:32:57 AM
On 1/10/2014 ropedonkey wrote:

>I am not sure where all the teaching comes from but I heard the word I
>need to rap off the focal point and another bunch were belaying off the
>power point.

Love it, I might start using those randomly!

PThompson - what went wrong to lead to that event?
martym
2-Oct-2014
9:57:43 AM
On 1/10/2014 mikllaw wrote:
>Some of these beginners don't know what the focal length of their belay
>is. But there's a power point on the subject.
Chockstone "Like"
PThomson
2-Oct-2014
10:17:28 AM
On 2/10/2014 climberman wrote:
>On 1/10/2014 ropedonkey wrote:
>
>PThompson - what went wrong to lead to that event?

Monty's original post about it is here: http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=5&MessageID=11239&Replies=37&PagePos=40&Sort=LastMessage#NewPost

But the relevant excerpt is:

An American climber (with 8 years climbing experience) was attempting a trad route on the far left end of the Bayside area *. It involved a 30m rap in to a small ledge. His partner (an Italian) chose to leave the rap rope in place. The leader launched up a juggy crack - got to about 6m up and broke a handhold. He had placed no gear at that point. He fell off, landing on the ledge with one leg causing a very nasty compound fracture and dislocation of one ankle. A lot of blood. Lucky for them they still had the rap rope in place! The belayer prussiced up to the top and ran for help (finding me and others).

I might be wrong, but looking at the route description in the guide, and from my memories of the day, the actual route in question started from a semi-hanging belay a bit up from the ledge to avoid the superchoss (sort of like Werner Berner) and that the climbers accidently rapped past the belay to ledge (just like I did on Werner Berner) and subsequently had to free-solo unprotected up bad rock to get back on-route.

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