Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Grampians	Northern	(General)	(General)	[ Grampians Guide \| Images ]

Topic Date User

Iskra Crag update 10-Aug-2017 At 9:21:51 PM IdratherbeclimbingM9

Message

On 10/08/2017 Dave J wrote:
>I think you can steal from the future though too.Claiming an ascent of a thing youre not good enough to climb. Chipping and maybe aiding ? (Aiding being the less destructive of the two).
>
I think that your concept of aid climbing has it locked in to the stereotypical ancient concept of that genre of climbing.
Aid climbing has moved on and become 'clean aid' (hammerless) climbing (for the most part)...

Indeed, I would suggest that if you tried putting up an M7 (or harder) grade aid climb cleanly, that you would soon be converted as to what actually constitutes this genre of the climbing game we play.

As a side note I reckon that we have more in common than you'd first expect, as I find no particular joy in aiding anything less than M6, other than to access some magical places that my free climbing ability won't get me to. M6 and above however, is still for me a significant 'hook' that has plenty of adrenaline (fear factor?) potential involved, and it's the mental engagement with it by trying to do it cleanly that provides this.

~ but I digress, so back to ...
>For me I think it is also possible to steal from the future and this is a good case in point. Like chipping or just bolting/red
>tagging/claim staking something you never had a chance of actually free climbing

Stealing from the future would certainly be the case if something is chipped, and I agree that the game is diminished when bought down to a lower standard by whatever means; however while ever there are the likes of Alex Honnold stepping up to the mark to freesolo an El Capitan major route that historically involved pin scars etc, ... and without renaming the route in the process(!), then I think your premise is eroded somewhat! ☺

>what's the first name you think of when you hear "procul harem", "yesterday", or "india"
>
Honestly without doing some research to unearth any original names involved, I only know them by those titles, so you will have to forgive me my ignorant and parochial NSW upbringing!

>Even with aid the goal seems to be eliminating aid. the old guidebooks
>were full of X eliminated 2 points of aid Y reduces aid to just 3 points...the end point of that being that Z managed climb with no points of aid. I
>think for climbers generally, this has been the starting point for a while now.
>
Agreed, though this brings us back to the valid point that rossco stated clearly and which BA and myself (and presumably other oldies), are also voicing; and that is that here in Australia we don't re-name routes if they receive a better style of ascent, as we have enshrined a routes history in guidebooks since day one!