On 28/02/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>I'm just mystified that you have spent at least 4 days climbing on a windjammer
>since the new routes got done and you still haven't tried any of them?
>They don't bite. You might even enjoy them.
See, I'm mystified that you've spent lots of days climbing on windjammer since the old routes got put up 20 years ago (including establishing your own routes), and still haven't tried any of the harder trad lines??? :) But yes, I am keen to try a bunch of the new routes, and have mostly been waiting for good enough conditions down there to pull on small holds (Matt has set the bar by onsighting the 25 thing, looks like a great route)
> I'm happy to see some pruning with
>direct person to person consultation with the original equippers.
Yeah, the talking has already been done. Rick agreed to rejig his routes as mixed routes where appropriate (obviously that'll have to wait until bionic Rick is unleashed upon the crags).
>Apart from a couple of retrobolts
>(which I disagreed with) the argument is really over route style - and
>that style has been historically set by the first ascentist. What seems
>to be happening is that this is no longer the case.
I disagree strongly with this. Route style is one consideration, crag style is another. How do you think you'd go if you tried to bolt a new sport route between Tannin and The Wraith? The existing style at Point Perp is trad and mixed routes which go to the top of the cliff, and no bolts next to good gear placements for protection or belays! Yes, there are a couple of exceptions, this doesn't mean that the exceptions are the new rule. If people want to develop new routes at the crag without generating friction, they ought to stick to the existing style.
You are correct that the idea of sovereignty for first ascentionists has been abandoned, this is a conscious decision. I don't really care to go into it in too much detail here, but the actions of a handful of mad bolters has tipped a bunch of us over to a different approach. You've said yourself that some bolting is out of control (e.g. Mt. Alex, Mt. Kiera, and a lot of Joe Goding's stuff), however I don't really see you doing anything about it. Dangerouser Cliffs Australia is doing something about it. I doubt that you'll agree with our tactics, but we're not asking for permission nor seeking consensus.