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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 58
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Southwest You Yangs Gravel Pit Tor (General) [ You Yangs Guide | Images ] 

Author
The first bolt on Question of Ethics (You Yangs)
jdb
31/10/2012
4:51:52 PM
I was just wondering as to whether anyone out there had taken the fall before clipping the first bolt on Question of Ethics(20), and how it ended up. To me there is a nasty fall on offer, with the crux move being the last move before the clip. I reckon the 'said' bolt is ~4.5M up with the propect of a fall ~2m longer than that if you topple off the landing pad as well.

shortman
31/10/2012
5:00:49 PM
Sounds like most climbs at the youies.
gfdonc
31/10/2012
5:16:29 PM
Ah, you troll.
Graham Sanders did take the plunge when we were attempting the FA. He landed ok but then overbalanced and fell down the gully. He was OK.

It was pretty funny at the time, but not nearly as funny as his similar effort on Frankenstein and the Were Turkeys which involved him sliding head-first down the gully on his back, covered in moss and leaves.
mikllaw
31/10/2012
11:29:29 PM
the real question is: is 4.5m slab fall really a 'fall"?
rolsen1
1/11/2012
7:21:45 AM
On 31/10/2012 jdb wrote:
>I was just wondering as to whether anyone out there had taken the fall
>before clipping the first bolt on Question of Ethics(20), and how it ended
>up. To me there is a nasty fall on offer, with the crux move being the
>last move before the clip. I reckon the 'said' bolt is ~4.5M up with the
>propect of a fall ~2m longer than that if you topple off the landing pad
>as well.

Yes it is too high, it needs an extra bolt but gfdonc refuses to see the error in his ways. Always makes me laugh when he suggests putting extra bolts in other climbs eg the recent rabbit rocks thread.

>Sounds like most climbs at the youies.

Not not true, QoE is much better and more consistent than every other youies climb at the grade.

>the real question is: is 4.5m slab fall really a 'fall"?

If you fall down the gully as well, it is probably closer to 7m, yes it is a fall. Maybe a better question is: Is a slab route really a "route"?
uwhp510
1/11/2012
10:05:22 AM
Sort of sounds like Metal Fatigue at Booroomba, which is another grade 20 Slab, except in this case the crux is just below the first bit of gear which is at 20m (which may be a bolt... can't remember... there are bolts on the climb, hence the name).

I reckon funny/illogical bolting is the spice of life and should be preserved, but maybe that's just me.
gfdonc
1/11/2012
10:08:49 AM
On 1/11/2012 rolsen1 wrote:
>Yes it is too high, it needs an extra bolt but gfdonc refuses to see the
>error in his ways.
Ah, the Question still stands after all these years. Fair point, I'll get the drill out.

>Always makes me laugh when he suggests putting extra
>bolts in other climbs eg the recent rabbit rocks thread.
It was Wabbit Wocks, Wabbit Wocks! Duck Season! Duck Season!

>>the real question is: is 4.5m slab fall really a 'fall"?
Actually that first bit is steep enough to jump off instead of sliding. Hence the concern.
Dave C
1/11/2012
10:31:19 PM
On 31/10/2012 jdb wrote:
>I was just wondering as to whether anyone out there had taken the fall
>before clipping the first bolt on Question of Ethics(20), and how it ended
>up.

I've seen a couple of people fluff that start over the years, neither fell down the extra step (you actually don't land that close to it as I recall) and they both hobbled away with a few bruises. That start was a whole lot scarier for the first few months after the fire of '85 as pretty much every hold that survived below the first bolt was an exfoliating flake likely to crumble or explode when used. Nice!
There always used to be a cheat stick lying at the base back in the day ( I have a picture of a well-known 80s climbing personality using it!)
A decent pad and a good spotter seems to be popular these days - I've seen a few people heading up there with pads in recent years and guessed that is what they were taking them for - which strikes me as being a good option. Personally, I would seriously think of dragging myself up the road to remove any extra bolt that appears on QoE, it's one of only a few routes in the You-Yangs with any real character and I would not like it to be reduced to an easy sport-route.
dalai
1/11/2012
10:48:27 PM
On 1/11/2012 Dave C wrote:
> There always used to be a cheat stick lying at the base back in the day ( I have a picture of a well-known 80s climbing personality using it!)

Nice photo Dave C

dalai
1/11/2012
10:54:55 PM
The route is fine how it is. If you aren't up for the moves to the first bolt TR it...

rodw
2/11/2012
8:03:35 AM
Why not just stick clip it if your worried about fall?
rolsen1
2/11/2012
8:23:10 AM
On 1/11/2012 Dave C wrote:
>Personally, I would seriously think of dragging myself up the road
>to remove any extra bolt that appears on QoE, it's one of only a few routes
>in the You-Yangs with any real character and I would not like it to be
>reduced to an easy sport-route.


Clearly it is not going to be retro'd with gdfonc's attitude and your threats to remove a bolt that doesn't exist add nothing to this discussion.

Having said that none of the arguments in this thread make sense. How can anyone justify the best climb at it's grade in the youies needing to be either stick clipped or require a pad. The fact that Carrigan is stick clipping the climb speaks volumes, the fact that you know more than one person who has hobbled away after falling before the first bolt isn't good enough. The best climb at the grade doesn't need "real character" it has enough going for it. Adding a single bolt wouldn't make it an "easy sport route" it would just mean it could be climbed like all other climbs at the grade at the youies, without a cheat stick or a pad.

Also, I bet the climbs on the other side of the Tor get a lot more leads, not because they are better climbs but because they don't need extra things to climb them safely.

rodw
2/11/2012
8:57:59 AM
On 2/11/2012 rolsen1 wrote:
>. How
>can anyone justify the best climb at it's grade in the youies needing to
>be either stick clipped or require a pad.

Because not everything has to be handed to you...its not hard to stick clip it.....so suck it up and do it if your worried about the fall....these "extra things" you speak of....if a stick clip is what stops it worth being climbed it obviously not that great a route...stick clipping takes a few seconds.
kieranl
2/11/2012
9:07:44 AM
Didn't use a stick clip or a pad but I had Dave Gairns and it was his turn to lead.
rightarmbad
2/11/2012
9:37:03 AM
I don't have a clue about the climb in question, but sometimes there are high first bolts because the rock below is variable and you should stick clip it anyways.
Also, some routes, there is no stance to clip a lower bolt from, you just have to climb through.

So not all high bolts are a wank, just learn to deal with them and stop whinging.
JDB
2/11/2012
9:51:36 AM
Boy, I must be thick, the penny has now dropped. I get it now........
The first ascentionist(s) have a god given right to a piece of rock that they do not own, irrespective of the decisions they make regarding fixed protection.
So by extrapolation, if Wolfgang Gullich placed one bolt at 2/3 height on Punks, all repeat aspirants should : top rope, re-write their wills, inflate a jumping castle underneath, attach the draw/rope with a cherry picker on one of the nicest pieces of rock at Arapiles for time immemorial.

rodw
2/11/2012
9:59:50 AM
Not really a proper comparison..the bolt can obviously be stick clipped as shown in the picture so just stick clip it..I really can't see the issue as how it could possibly ruin the climb?
gfdonc
2/11/2012
10:07:52 AM
The photo is classic! Thanks for that.

On 2/11/2012 rolsen1 wrote:
>Clearly it is not going to be retro'd with gdfonc's attitude

Actually I was serious. I suggested adding a bolt when Neil replaced the original carrots a while back but received enough negative reaction to leave it as-is. Sounds like we're at the same point again.

Stick-clipping is top-roping.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/11/2012
10:17:48 AM
On 2/11/2012 JDB wrote:
>Boy, I must be thick, the penny has now dropped. I get it now........

Maybe not?

The name of the climb gives the game away*,... and two other things would help; a warning in the route description; and using your own visual assessment at the base of the climb to see if you want that kind of 'challenge'.

What I'd like to know is how the first ascentionists did it.

Did they bolt on lead?
Did they abseil bolt it and possibly preclip it at the same time?
Did they stick clip it?
Did they lead it as it currently stands after having bolted it sometime previously?

The challenge for me would be climbing the route in at least the same (or preferably better), style; and certainly not lowering the standard of the challenge.

(* As further attested by the posted snippet above, i.e. A Question of Ethics
On 1/11/2012 gfdonc wrote:
>On 1/11/2012 rolsen1 wrote:
>>Yes it is too high, it needs an extra bolt but gfdonc refuses to see the error in his ways.
>Ah, the Question still stands after all these years. Fair point, I'll get the drill out.)

anthonycuskelly
2/11/2012
10:23:48 AM
The Tempest Melbourne guide has the warning that it's high. Personally I'd stick clip it (regardless of if someone else thinks that's toproping), it's no biggie.

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 58
There are 58 messages in this topic.

 

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