|On 8/08/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I think that you too, are not grasping the fact that for some new-routers
>(I am thinking trad style mixed ground that 'may require a bolt
>for progress/safety of first ascent, here), that to retro them by anyone
>other than the first ascenters is a stepping down from the original commitment.
I get that, but like rodw I was thinking more about pure sport routes that, for example, have the first bolt at 10 metres and no opportunity for gear inbetween. Perhaps the discussion's going a bit far afield of the route itself - not having climbed it I don't know whether it's a real mixed route. If it is, I tend to think of those as trad, with associated mental adjustments for how long the runouts might be and how sparsely protected.
It may amuse you to know that I've had the opportunity recently to place as many bolts as I wished in my own private playground, but decided to place none, and to ask for a strict no-bolts approach. So who knows, some of the comments made here may even have influenced me (probably not the nasty ones though! ;)
Macca: I think you took my comments a bit personally. I don't actually want anything in relation to 99.9% of climbs, if I'm honest, and have taken every climb I meet as I met it and decided accordingly whether to hop on it. I've rap inspected things I've climbed and attempted things at my limit ground up (and on one occasion broken an ankle as a result). And I did and do go out and put up climbs in the style I prefer, which has involved 0 bolts to date. *shrug* I don't think it speaks well for your cause to be calling me or any other climber a 'bottom feeder' (though it's hard to take anything here as more than passing amusement) - ... more flies with honey?
To put my thoughts another, hopefully clearer way - you might put two bolts in a 20 metre mixed line that has some big and dangerous run-outs, because you prefer it that way. But are you making a bold climb, or over-protecting a climb that a better trad climber could do without any bolts? Bolts are a slippery slope. Once you add one, the purity of your argument is immediately lessened.