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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Eastern	Cathedral Range	(General)	(General)	[ Cathedral Guide \| Images ]

Author

New crag at Cathedrals >>> coming soon

climbingnirvana

10-Nov-2009
6:05:25 PM

Some friends and i have been working sporadically but quite hard over the last 3 years to get an
overlooked/undeveloped area of the cathedral ranges to a point where people would want to head out
and climb at this spot. To climb some new and not typically "Cathys" routes!!
There is quite a substantial area with some absolutely awesome routes that i could spray on about for
ever, but will leave to you to comment on at your leisure.
The 10 odd routes so far are graded from 13 - 25.
There is one climb in particular that has stood out as esthetically almost perfect slab climbing up an
unlikely/awesome feature BALD EAGLE (20) -stay tuned-.
The pro is mostly mixed with a few all trad and also all bolted lines to play on.
The average length of the crag is 50m and potential is still there for more new routes as there is still a
heap of rock that would need the gentle stroke of a brush to reveal it's secrets to anyone keen.
With the near re-opening of the cathedral ranges we are hoping to go back to have a look at how (if at
all) the recent fires have affected this area. We are hoping that any damage will be minimal as the area
is pretty well clear from trees and any damage would be down low.
Call it a kind of WELCOME BACK CATHEDRALS!!

We love this place and hope you will too!!


..::- Chris -::..

11-Nov-2009
11:30:32 AM

Details ??

Pics ??

Cheers
Chris.


nmonteith

11-Nov-2009
11:47:28 AM

Please tell me the walk-in is under 45 minutes and less than 45 degrees. From the CBD of Melbourne its usually faster to drive to the Grampians than to plod up the hills to the farther crags in the Cathedrals! :-)

climbingnirvana

16-Nov-2009
11:39:14 PM

Pics and details to follow..
The walk in is much lower angled than the walk to the north jawbone but about as long.
This is an exciting new area that is well worth the walk.
We wouldn't have dragged ourselves up there so many times with so much gear over so long a time
if it wasn't worth the effort.
Hopefully the Cathys will be open by christmas and we can reveal all then.

simey

17-Nov-2009
9:29:58 AM

On 16/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>We wouldn't have dragged ourselves up there so many times with so much gear over so long a time if it wasn't worth the effort.

People establishing new routes often let enthusiasm override good judgement.

widewetandslippery

17-Nov-2009
9:32:03 AM

On 17/11/2009 simey wrote:

>
>People establishing new routes often let enthusiasm override good judgement.

People who establish new routes are judged.

climbingnirvana

18-Nov-2009
4:12:03 PM

Have another beer simey, you sounded pretty psyched when we spoke to you at the nati pub!!
Whats changed? The walk in?? Or are you just out of new lines in your ' Backyard'????
It is what it is and if you choose to check it out its up to YOU.

P.S. All bolts bought and payed for by us!!!!! What a novelty!!!!!


nmonteith

18-Nov-2009
4:20:28 PM

On 18/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>P.S. All bolts bought and payed for by us!!!!! What a novelty!!!!!

Novelty? Who normally pays for your bolts?

kieranl

18-Nov-2009
5:12:27 PM

On 18/11/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>On 18/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>>P.S. All bolts bought and payed for by us!!!!! What a novelty!!!!!
>
>Novelty? Who normally pays for your bolts?
I wouldn't mind access to a free supply either.


cruze

18-Nov-2009
7:07:01 PM

Head to Nowra. Bolts grow on trees there... I mean rock. Take as many as you want they probably wont even be missed. Slightly used.

climbingnirvana

25-Nov-2009
12:23:02 AM

Friend had a massive stash of bolts that we'd used in the past.
Since running out we've bought more from a heap of AUST suppliers.
I've heard that others bolting around vic in recent years have
resorted to more dubious methods of obtaining gear at no cost to
themselves. Although this is of course just hearsay.


nmonteith

25-Nov-2009
7:47:56 AM

On 25/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>I've heard that others bolting around vic in recent years have
>resorted to more dubious methods of obtaining gear at no cost to
>themselves. Although this is of course just hearsay.

Racking my brain I can't think of anyone bolting in Vic who has obtained gear at no cost using dubious means. Four of five years ago when I was doing a lot of rebolting I would occasionally get glue donated to me, but everything else has been paid for by me, to the tune of $12,000ish bucks. Other Victorians I know that bolt a lot have also entirely self funded their own new routes.

climbingnirvana

25-Nov-2009
6:11:37 PM

In a perfect world thats the way it would work neil.
We've always funded our own projects and believe that
anyone who can't afford to should learn to save.
Like i said just rumors and I'm sure that where this/these
people are concerned there is no fire - there is
only smoke. They know who they are and the truth in any case!!

How many bolts does $12,000 get you these days?
By my calculations thats around 1700 fixed hangers with stainless
expansion bolts.
Do you buy in bulk or in lots?
We bend a lot of our own u bolts and find it really cheap compared to
buying them from suppliers.

If possible trad is really the way to go in relation to establishing any new crags
as there is often only imagination limiting your ability to protect climbs
safely and without bolts in many cases if you look hard enough, "welcome to
barbados" springs to mind although i have never been there to see it but know of
the ethics that were behind it's ascent/s.

In essence......... Ethics = Savings!!!!????

My old man was responsible for establishing many serious alpine climbs in the mid 60's in
the Tatra mountains on both sides of the border and minimalism was then the order of
the day, much more-so than these days.
The advantage of the bolt is that it safely opens up new terrain to people wanting to find
new/otherwise dangerous ways to the top.

There is nothing wrong with sport climbing as it is just that - SPORT climbing and thats great.
Many of us enjoy just pulling down on holds with minimal consequence.
Trad climbing is a type of adventure, in that the outcome of failure is not AS certain and the
responsibility lies in your nerve, nouce and ability!

The development of any area will always be the subject of scrutiny, if there are bolts placed then
we can multiply that.

If there's something worth establishing DO IT bolts or not ("just don't get to enthusiastic or it will
override your good judgment") .

It does however unsettle me a little that if one person (and before you go "chockstone" on me neil
I'm just using you as an example for statistic's and example's sake can place/replace about 1700
odd bolts in 5 years rebolting and bolting new lines then the "others that bolt a lot" would
average lets say 1000 a year then how many bolts are out there (and in waiting) slowly making
adventure
a thing of the past? where are we heading with this climbing caper. I like hellraiser the movie
but don't feel that over bolting cliffs to resemble the flick is the the way climbing should be heading!
(these days hellraiser guy would have u bolts or hangers instead of carrots though as they are
easier to clip)

Save money be bold!!


Pat

25-Nov-2009
6:15:05 PM

Is this crag north or south of the Jawbones area?

climbingnirvana

25-Nov-2009
6:19:59 PM

check your stocking on the 25/12/09

kieranl

25-Nov-2009
9:02:11 PM

A bit taken aback at this anonymous wacka "going all chockstone".
I don't know where Neil got his $12,000 bolting cost, probably one of the 75% of statistics that are made up on the spot.
However, for the purposes of the exercise, let's say climbing for 8-9 years in Vic which is what Neil has done I think and one bolted route per weekend, either new or rebolt.
Over 8 years, at 40 weekends per year (allowing generous climbing holidays) that's 320 routes. 5 bolts per route makes 1600 bolts.
Perspective : 300 routes, there are about 3,000 at Arapiles.
Mate, if you're going to put up routes and then start picking holes in someone else's practices you'd better start getting things right.


davetheyounger

25-Nov-2009
9:47:53 PM

dont get your hopes up about a cathedrals Christmas, Easter is the rumor around the traps. Anyway its too hot to climb at the cathedrals in summer. Winter is the thing especially as it doesnt rain as much anymore


nmonteith

25-Nov-2009
10:36:28 PM

On 25/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>How many bolts does $12,000 get you these days?

Obviously depends on the type of bolt! I stopped counting about 4 years ago - I'd bolted 300 routes by then (not counting rebolting). Probably add another 100 or so for the last few years. At a wild guess it would 3000+ bolts. Doing new multipitch routes in the Gluies adds up to lots of bolts!

>By my calculations thats around 1700 fixed hangers with stainless
>expansion bolts.
>Do you buy in bulk or in lots?

Normally I just buy in dribs and drabs - but since moving to NSW I've been making home made Us. I'm going through about $400 of stainless steel rod every 6 months or so. That's about 300 bolts.

>If possible trad is really the way to go in relation to establishing any
>new crags
>In essence......... Ethics = Savings!!!!????

From my experience a good deal of the old (bold) routes were driven more by a need for cost reduction and laziness rather than an ethical struggle. Hand drilling slowed people down - a lot!

>It does however unsettle me a little that if one person (and before you
>go "chockstone" on me neil
>I'm just using you as an example for statistic's and example's sake can
>place/replace about 1700
>odd bolts in 5 years rebolting and bolting new lines then the "others
>that bolt a lot" would
>average lets say 1000 a year then how many bolts are out there (and in
>waiting) slowly making
>adventure
>a thing of the past?

There is plenty of adventure still out there! 50+ years of trad climbing in Australia has meant there is thousands of climbs to do. It will only become a thing of the past if people stop climbing these old classic routes.

I'd just like to make sure that the 'average climbing joe' doesn't think that people doing new routes or rebolting are being paid for it - or as you alluded to; stealing the materials to do it??

I'm looking forward to your big reveal of the new Cathy crag!

dave

25-Nov-2009
10:43:50 PM

On 25/11/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>On 25/11/2009 climbingnirvana wrote:
>>I've heard that others bolting around vic in recent years have
>>resorted to more dubious methods of obtaining gear at no cost to
>>themselves. Although this is of course just hearsay.
>
>Racking my brain I can't think of anyone bolting in Vic who has obtained
>gear at no cost using dubious means.

I'm so disapointed. I liked the idea of bolts made from the stainless steel grids stolen from public urinals! haha

kieranl

25-Nov-2009
11:07:11 PM

On 25/11/2009 dave wrote:

>I'm so disapointed. I liked the idea of bolts made from the stainless
>steel grids stolen from public urinals! haha
So you're in favour of piss-poor bolting.

There are 41 messages in this topic.