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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 37
Author
Multiptich anchor question
cseisun
30/09/2010
3:00:34 PM
Question

On a multipitch, if the leader makes the anchor with his or her end of the rope (direct tie in anchor), after belaying how does the leader lead again....

I assume this is why cordellets exist...but I like efficiency of the direct tie in method

Im moving from trad single pitching to multipitching


billk
30/09/2010
3:09:30 PM
John Long's book on climbing anchors (which if I remember rightly is titled "Climbing Anchors") is well worth a read if you are making the move to multipitching.

Much of the time when multipitching you will be swinging leads so you can use your end of the rope for making the anchor. The rest of the time you will need slings or a cordy.


jkane
30/09/2010
3:19:44 PM
Make sure your anchor is multi-directional, i.e will take an upward pull without ripping out some or all of the pieces!!

Both leader and 2nd use a sling and locking biners to lock yourself directly into the anchors (best to use the central point so you are using all the anchor pieces).

Double check that you are safe and swap places.

Both untie and swap ends of the rope.

Double check you are both tied in correctly. New belayer makes sure he's attached to the anchors in the correct way for belaying - all pieces under equal tension.

Put new leader on belay, detach leader's safety sling and lead off.

Hardly "more efficient" with all that swapping about. If your not careful, you end up with a tangled mess,

You should probably either get some instruction or at least get a book or 2nd a more experienced leader a few times. Also make sure you have plenty of time, water, maybe a spare layer. Pick something below your usual grade. Double and triple check everything.

dimpet
30/09/2010
3:22:55 PM
You could always get all parties safe on the anchor point of your rope anchor, then untie and retie on the other end of the rope.

But the only reason I see for using the rope in the anchor on a multi-pitch is if there is a huge bolder you want to rap it around. I don't think i've found any multi-pitches so far at araps where a cordellete has not sufficed.

Sabu
30/09/2010
3:27:47 PM
In all honesty cordellets are far more efficient. Once you have your placements its really easy equalise them and then clip yourself in to a central point.

My partner and I carry two on multipitches so that that leader always has one for setting up the belay.
kieranl
30/09/2010
3:45:34 PM
I tried cordelettes and they were OK but didn't make enough of a difference enough of the time for it to be worthwhile for me. Maybe if you use one from the start it would be different. I don't like carrying single-purpose pieces of gear unless I really have to and would probably end up using the thing as a sling on long pitches.
If you're leading in blocks or one person is doing all the leading, when the second comes up just get them to clip in to the belay pieces using separate krabs to keep the tie-ins distinct from the leaders. Make sure to keep the seconds rope below the leaders. It's fairly straightforward and not hard to avoid clusterf-s.

gordoste
30/09/2010
4:01:40 PM
To answer your question specifically - you'd have to untie from the rope and tie back into the other end (keeping yourself clipped in to the anchor of course). Taking turns leading is quicker as you can just grab the gear and keep climbing. Also, a number of accidents have happened when people have untied and then forgotten to tie back in (usually getting distracted halfway through tying the knot). I seem to recall that one Chockstone member's rope fell off his harness halfway through a pitch when he did this!

cseisun
30/09/2010
4:15:05 PM
Thats my issue - i dont like the idea of untying. 1 in 100 times i could see myself and others stuffing up.
kieranl
30/09/2010
4:16:41 PM
IMHO, un-tying and re-tying the rope is not a good practice for changing ends, especially for novices who are still trying to work out which end is up..
Better to quickly flake the rope so the leader's end is back on top - I left this step out of the previous post..

billk
30/09/2010
4:23:00 PM
On 30/09/2010 cseisun wrote:
>Thats my issue - i dont like the idea of untying. 1 in 100 times i could
>see myself and others stuffing up.

Stick with that dislike and learn to like slings and cordies. Alternatively, use the rope for your anchor as you are used to doing, then reorganize the anchor as described in the above posts without you or your second untying.
One Day Hero
30/09/2010
4:31:28 PM
Just add a second biner to each piece when you build the belay. The second comes up and mimics your ropework with their rope underneath yours. Reflake and go, no untying, no stupid big cordelettes identifying you as a bumbly, easy.
costa
30/09/2010
6:03:34 PM
x2 for reflaking to avoid untying at any point in time.
robertsonja
30/09/2010
6:37:38 PM
Only numpties untie from the rope whilst climbing!
You tie into the rope at the bottom of the climb for a reason, so never untie until your safe at the top.
Cordelette or any other likewise system works best for anchor building.
If you are wondering what to use to clip into the anchor with, try the big fat thing between your legs.

Miguel75
30/09/2010
6:54:40 PM
I wish mine was big and fat. All I can manage is skinny and limp. And my rope management skills suck too...
simey
30/09/2010
8:30:14 PM
On 30/09/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Just add a second biner to each piece when you build the belay. The second
>comes up and mimics your ropework with their rope underneath yours. Reflake
>and go, no untying, no stupid big cordelettes identifying you as a bumbly, easy.

Finally someone provides a decent answer. Cordelettes are not required for a party of two, but they are useful if you are guiding more than one person and you want to avoid a macrame session at the belay.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/09/2010
8:37:33 PM
On 30/09/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Just add a second biner to each piece when you build the belay. The second
>comes up and mimics your ropework with their rope underneath yours. Reflake
>and go, no untying, no stupid big cordelettes identifying you as a bumbly,
>easy.


~> a good tip, though it requires carrying extra krabs!
simey
30/09/2010
8:42:59 PM
>~> a good tip, though it requires carrying extra krabs!

No it doesn't. The second can simply add the extra karabiners when they clip in to the belay.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/09/2010
9:00:09 PM
I thought they were swapping the lead end of the rope?

You obviously take/rack your gear differently to the way I do...
Heh, heh, heh!
bl@ke
30/09/2010
9:10:02 PM
Cordelletes are wicked. I think mine are wildcountry ? 10mm (or 8mm? I cant remember) rack up nice and small. I saw a video of one Trango brought out that was always perfectly equalised wherever you moved sorta like how a sliding x does.
widewetandslippery
30/09/2010
9:21:24 PM
learn to tie a knot. cordellesbos are for seppos.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 37
There are 37 messages in this topic.

 

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