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General Climbing Discussion

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guides new zealand

Billie W

22-Jul-2010
3:05:49 AM

Hi just wondering anyone's suggestion or experience with guide companies in NZ. Cheers for any feedback.
Billie

sliamese

23-Jul-2010
7:11:34 AM

adventure consultants are pretty well respected and do a large range of stuff! seen them about a few places and the guides have always been friendly, safe and professional!!

simon

Mike Bee

23-Jul-2010
9:53:47 AM

Alpine Guides (based in Mt Cook Village) did a good job on my TMC a couple of years ago.
A mate of mine used Aspiring Guides and only has good stuff to say about them.

Honestly, every company in NZ seems to use certified guides. Any certified guide will have more skills and knowledge than you'll have time to learn.

desk monkey

23-Jul-2010
12:58:05 PM

I’ve had a couple friends do the TMC with Alpine Guides and heard all good things about them (that’s why I’m about to book for the end of November). I also know one guy who did a 10 day guided ascent of Mt Aspiring with them and had a blast.

Dizzy

23-Jul-2010
6:59:38 PM

A lot comes down to the actual guide - I've come across some NZ guides that I would find it very hard to get along with over a 7 or 10 day trip which would probably affect (negatively) my enjoyment of the trip. Others I've come across have been sensational. A guy called Mike Madden who works for Adventure Consultants was a particularly good guide - very patient and an all round nice bloke and I'll be asking AC if I can hook up with Mike on my next trip. The 3 major companies, Aspiring Guides, Alpine Guides (been with them a couple of times, one great experience, one good but not great experience) and Adventure Consultants basically use a fairly common pool of guides (huge choice with each company, most/all guides are very experienced and are good teachers) and offer pretty similar courses/prices. You'd be sh!t out of luck if you used one of those 3 companies and got a dud guide - even the not so great experience I had with Alpine Guides was still a good trip (it's just a pity we both got explosive gastro in the hut and had shocking weather).

Happy to discuss off line if you want to PM me.

Dylan.

diddy

24-Jul-2010
12:59:39 PM

If you're planning on doing a TMC then also consider where they might take you. If you go with Alpine Guides they'll take you pretty much exclusively to Kelman Hut in the Upper Tasman. But Adventure Consultants and Alpine Guides can be a bit more flexible and might take you up to the West Coast or Aspiring regions. Nothing wrong with Kelman really -- probably one of the better spots for an intro to the mountains -- but Centennial Hut is also a good spot in my opinion. The Aspiring region is ok if you want to climb Aspiring, but otherwise the Mt Cook region is a more inspiring playground.

gjoh

24-Jul-2010
4:22:10 PM

I did a TMC last December with Alpine Guides. Had guide Bill Atkinson, he was great and very experienced. AGL was great, and we had no problems with anything.

Adventure Consultants were also staying in Kelman Hut with us and they seemed very organised too.

Mike Bee

24-Jul-2010
5:31:39 PM

I had Bill on my TMC too, as did about serveral other people I know (we all did the course independantly). Overall, the verdict seems to be some mixed reports. Personally, I liked the way he ran things, it was to the point without too much fussing about, which is how I like to climb. Some others felt that perhaps he could have been a bit more of an approachable teacher type figure. You can't argue with that many years of experience or his knowledge of the area though.

My only critisism of Alpine Guides however is that they softened their "client specs" for one of the people on my course. There were 4 of us, 3 Aussies who were all strong bushwalkers and mid-high teen trad climbers, and the 4th was from Malaysia (or maybe Singapore) who had only fair English, was quite unfit (and smoked like a chimney) and who's total techincal rock experience was 2 hours at a gym in Christchurch (so much for being able to second grade 14 trad routes as it says in their literature). To boot, he ignored the gear list and rocked up with a useless Nike sports back pack, no truly waterproof gear and not enough warm stuff. In my opinion, that guy shouldn't have left Mt Cook Village.

That left a slightly sour taste in the mouths of us other 3. If I had my time again, I'd still go with Alpine Guides, but I'd get a mate of simliar fitness and climbing ability to me, and hire a private guide for the week. Simliar cost overall, but you'd get way more done and learn way more because (for example) you wouldn't have to be retaught a rethreaded figure 8 knot because there's one guy in the course who can't do it!

J.C.

24-Jul-2010
8:10:25 PM

I did a 10-day TMC with Bill Atkinson a few years back too, can't recommend him enough.
I found the course itself frustratingly slow if you have plenty of experience moving fast on multipitch trad, but still felt that it was a great very basic foundation for getting into the hills. Like Mike though, if I had the money/time over again I would just book Bill as a private guide with a climbing partner, I recokn I would have learnt a LOT more and gotten a lot more done. I'd also book an avy course for the same trip.

bel

25-Jul-2010
5:56:48 PM

i did my TMC with Alpine guides 7 or so years ago and found them fantastic, i too had the frustration of having a few people on the course with no climbing background however would still recommend them. i have since ran into several of there guides about the place and all seem really friendly and easy to get information from.

Wollemi

26-Jul-2010
12:31:02 AM

On 24/07/2010 J.C. wrote:
>I did a 10-day TMC with Bill Atkinson a few years back too, can't recommend
>him enough.
Why? If I may say, I have found with trekking, and skiing and kayak courses, that peoples judgements may be clouded by the tasty creamy dinner put on the first night, and having a copious array of nibblies available minutes after arriving back at camp/hut each evening.
Have you continued with alpinism? Do TMC’s ever get you out the door 2 hours before first light to instill in you the need to be moving early on hard snow?

>I found the course itself frustratingly slow if you have plenty of experience
>moving fast on multipitch trad, but still felt that it was a great very
>basic foundation for getting into the hills.
What is ‘moving fast on multipitch trad’? On a thread here at Chockstone many weeks back, someone said an hour per pitch on rock in Oz – others tended to agree.

…if I had
>the money/time over again I would just book Bill as a private guide with
>a climbing partner, I recokn I would have learnt a LOT more and gotten
>a lot more done. I'd also book an avy course for the same trip.
When I see pics of the climbers gear at a bivy, the avy gear must be left inside the pack as well, hey?
This is not a criticism of you, but did Mr Atkinson state just when to carry the extra metal? It is appreciated that avy instruction can teach (to an extent) when to not go out/when to retreat, and so a feeling of not needing to carry the shovel and probe dictates. Also; ’yeah – following that long ridge up from X hut and back is a long, but spectacular day – and you’ll be well above any potential fracture lines or debris run-outs.’

I just never see pics of mountaineers with a shovel and probe each.

skink

26-Jul-2010
10:28:57 AM

On 26/07/2010 Wollemi wrote:

>Have you continued with alpinism? Do TMC’s ever get you out the door
>2 hours before first light to instill in you the need to be moving early
>on hard snow?

>What is ‘moving fast on multipitch trad’? On a thread here at Chockstone
>many weeks back, someone said an hour per pitch on rock in Oz – others
>tended to agree.

>When I see pics of the climbers gear at a bivy, the avy gear must be left
>inside the pack as well, hey?
>This is not a criticism of you, but did Mr Atkinson state just when to
>carry the extra metal? It is appreciated that avy instruction can teach
>(to an extent) when to not go out/when to retreat, and so a feeling of
>not needing to carry the shovel and probe dictates. Also; ’yeah – following
>that long ridge up from X hut and back is a long, but spectacular day –
>and you’ll be well above any potential fracture lines or debris run-outs.’
>
>I just never see pics of mountaineers with a shovel and probe each.
>
Why the bitchy post - do you have an issue with mountaineering courses run by guiding companies?

Oh, and Bill would have told JC to keep his shovel and probe inside his pack - I thought everyone knew that only skifield posers put their avy gear on the outside.

sleake

26-Jul-2010
11:25:15 AM

Im just gonna put in the "get out there and do it yourself" voice. Get some time and gear - and go and play in the snow.

As far as Im concerned, TMC's are the worst possible value for money. All that seems to get done is lots of talking, top roping on seracs, practising self arrest and endless crevasse rescue - basically the stuff you instantly forget/realize you dont need once you start proper climbing. You will be with a bunch of gumbies - and the guide to client ratio (4-1?) prevents you from climbing ANYTHING cool.

If you REALLY want a guide - get another mate - and get a guide and go on a week long trip out to aspiring/pioneer/whever and absolutly pick their brains about everything. This will put you on the steepest learning curve of your life, you will bag cool peaks and actually learn skills you will put to use when you are on your own.

I can understand why you want a guide - the idea of mountaineering is typically made out to be a sport only for the truly hardcore, and if amatures try it you WILL DEFINATLY DIE!!!!! Particually in Oz, there seems to be a culture of 'you have to be a rock god before you can go to a real hill'.

This is a joke. Mountaineering is not about waking up with a hangover at 10, have a bunch of coffees in the fanciest cafe wearing your puffy downy and randomly yelling terms like redpoint, onsight an 'sketchin out' to impress the cute barister chick. Finish your caffine hit - drive to the carpark, shoulder your 3kg bumbag and complain about the epic walk in. Finally get to the crag after a gruelling 10 minute plod, take off your shirt, leave on your beanie and put harness and a few draws on, only to fail on the warmup, complaining loudly that its "too spoogy' and leave. Moan and groan on the way out about how crap the rock is/broken holds/how hot,cold,tepid the weather is and the horrid nature of the walkin.

Mountaineering is taking all the things you just complained about and combining and multiplying them by a factor of 10 to create the most horrible sport know to man.

Your lockoff ability, heelhook prowess and dyno skills will all be of no use.

All you need is the ability to truly suffer and keep putting one heavy cramponed foot ahead of the other when every fiber of your body is telling you to go back to the sunny cafe, 'huge' walkins and spoogy rock you once complained so much about.

hargs

26-Jul-2010
12:08:17 PM

I'm kind of with Sleake: I went the 'get out there and do it yourself' route, but only because I went with good mates with mountaineering experience. I appreciate you mightn't have that luxury, in which case doing a course is a way to get started. If I were in that position again, though, I'd take the 'go with a mate of equivalent skill-fitness-mental approach and hire your own guide' option.

There's something about being out there under your own steam that adds a real adventure element to your trip -- for me anyway -- and I'd prefer not to dilute that by continually deferring to the guide. I guess it depends what you're looking for out of your trip.

sliamese

26-Jul-2010
4:54:19 PM

yeh thats a good way to get into it. but dont forget, the average age of the 75ishpeople that have died in mt cook is 23. and that the rescue guys use the term YAM(young aussie male) with distaste when our bumblies f--- up!!

i think that if ur asking the questions of how then you should be getting a guide. theres a great yosemite story of a 24yo canadian that had quite a few FA's under his belt being asked by another young aspiring climber how to do such feats. his reply to slowly build up to soloing el cap wasnt well receieved with the aspiring climber saying well u didnt have to do all that, he replied 'i didnt have to ask how to do it though"

best advice is hire a guide with a few friends or go with some trusted patient friends!

but, like sleake says, just get out there and find out for yourself!!! you'll know when your over ur head and need to get out.

Wollemi

26-Jul-2010
6:01:29 PM

On 26/07/2010 sliamese wrote:
>i think that if ur asking the questions of how then you should be getting
>a guide.

Will this statement mark the end of Chockstone? Will Natimuk and Mt Victoria be swarming with guides anytime soon?

Billie W

26-Jul-2010
7:07:07 PM

Thanks all for your advice and replies. Safe and Happy Climbing!
Billie

diddy

26-Jul-2010
7:10:39 PM

I don't understand how this thread got jacked, nor the animosity. Wollemi you make no sense to me -- having a bad day and hate climbers? If you're not going to say anything helpful, then don't bother because you just add to the confusion for someone who just wants information on how to get into the sport.

Mountaineering is a good and fun sport, but for most Aussies it does take some commitment -- we don't have proper snow / mountains and many Aussies don't have basic snow skills / experience. Yes it is pretty straightforward plodding up the slope of a Grade 1 or Grade 2 mountain. But in most cases to get there you need to cross a glacier and if you don't know what you're doing, that is where you're in need of help.

So what has been said above is correct, but to try to summarise:

1. If you've got an experienced and patient mate who's willing to take you out, go with them. This is how most of us learn to rockclimb and it works for learning in the mountains too.
2. If you've got a mate who is keen to learn with you and do some climbing afterwards, then arrange to split a private instruction course with them, because that way you'll get the best bang for your buck.
3. If you don't have the option of doing either of the above, then do a TMC.

Of course there are some mountains in NZ where you can climb without having to cross a glacier. And so long as you have some boots, crampons and ice axe you can do some good trips. Examples include Mt Tyndall near Aspiring, the Otira Slide route on Rolleston, Mt Annette and the Annette Plateau outside of Mt Cook. You can play around these spots without worrying about doing anything too stupid that will get you killed (although Rolleston can have some steep exposed sections you might fall off!). You can also practice walking with a rope in the snow and preparing anchors / pulleys etc before you actually run the risk of falling into a crevasse.

But, that said, it will take a while to get confidence up before heading up to one of the higher altitude huts. With a TMC you can be reasonably confident that you'll learn enough to be able to head out and try some more interesting stuff..

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