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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
Author
new Blue Mtns guidebook -- call for info!
onsight
15/01/2010
3:29:37 PM
The Blue Mountains Climbing 2007 Edition guidebook has sold out and work is progressing on a new 2010 Edition — which we plan to have at the printers within six weeks. Here is some information about what we are doing.

We see each edition of the guidebook as a work in progress. Our general goal is to provide climbers with accurate information, for it to be as user friendly as possible, and to be a reasonably comprehensive record of all the climbing in the Mtns. This new guidebook has a fresh design, will feature more cliff topo photos and maps, incorporate revised and updated information, include new routes and cover several additional areas.

Producing a guidebook to an area as extensive as the Blue Mountains is a massive task. I’d like to take this opportunity to again thank the many climbers who contributed enormously to the 2007 edition; it would not have been possible without their help. Once again we have a great team in place. But to help ensure that we don’t miss anything, I’d really appreciate your help if you have any information that you can contribute. In particular, if you have any information about new routes, new areas, or if you have any specific feedback on existing access or route descriptions, then I’d love to hear from you.

We have already received a lot of information and route descriptions and have checked and will check again the ACA and Syd Rockies databases. However, if I receive all of the information directly, then I am more confident in the quality of the information, things are less likely to be left out, and I can query you if I have any questions.

As for the additional areas in this edition, there will be some of the older areas — including classics like Ikara and Hanging Rock — and some new areas. Not all the areas have been finalised and there may be some surprises. If you have new route or new area information from any area in the mountains, then please let us know. This is an opportunity for you to have a say in how your route or area is recorded.

Many thanks in advance if you can help.

I look forward to hearing about all the projects being done over the next few weeks!

Simon

PS. Please email info to: guidebook 'at' onsight.com.au

citationx
15/01/2010
3:53:10 PM
Just some feedback on the old guide (just in case my two cents counts) but I found the earlier editions (2003) much better when it came to having the route name, grade and length in bold as the first thing for the climbs, as opposed to having them right down the bottom as in the 2007 guide. It makes it easy to give an idea of epic factor etc, makes it easier to plan your day etc I found.
Also, will you be sticking with the *cougH* five-star system in the new guide?
:-)
Auspep
15/01/2010
4:27:42 PM
My two cents also,

Looked at from the perspective of a travelling climber with no experience of the region, I think the 2003 guide was actually easier to locate climbs. The 2007 guide seemed to give a humurous comment or anecdote regarding a particular route but no actual description of what features on the wall it followed.

The crag access descriptions and maps were pretty good though!
onsight
15/01/2010
5:10:16 PM
On 15/01/2010 citationx wrote:
>Just some feedback on the old guide (just in case my two cents counts)
Thanks. Constructive feedback is welcome.

>but I found the earlier editions (2003) much better when it came to having
>the route name, grade and length in bold as the first thing for the climbs,
>as opposed to having them right down the bottom as in the 2007 guide. It
>makes it easy to give an idea of epic factor etc, makes it easier to plan
>your day etc I found.
We are using a different font - and it is heavier weight for route names and grades - and made some layout changes, which improves readability when scanning the pages for info. After much debate we decided to keep the route length at the bottom as we figure you usually get a feel for the length of the routes at an area, and it's pretty easy to see if you're looking at a multi-pitch route. It's really trading off one design issue against another.

>Also, will you be sticking with the *cougH* five-star system in the new
>guide?
>:-)
Absolutely! If Arapiles routes can get three stars then we need to extend it to at least five for the Bluies, just to be consistent. ;-)
But seriously, I know not everyone likes it and it takes some getting used to but I see some advantages in it. We are definitely spending time and many people are giving input for the starring of individual routes, so the "implementation" should be better this time.

voodoo
15/01/2010
5:31:26 PM
Hi Simon,

I have a copy of the 2007 addition and I have to say it can be pretty difficult to locate climbs, especially where it's a climb that doesn't appear on a photo (or a whole area is without a photo).

What would really assist is if some of the 'hardware' information was included in the description (eg "5 FH to DBB"). The Sun Surf and Sandstone guide is a beautiful example of this style, and I find it one of the easiest guides to get my bearings with. You can simply look up the rock and spot the routes based on the pattern of hardware present and very quickly work out what you're standing in front of. This is especially useful at a crag where none of the climbs are initialled (which is a bit of an annoying trend!).

And lastly it lets you know what you need to be taking up with you! Not so long ago I was standing at the bottom of Mt Boyce, eyeing up Sweet Seduction in the 2007 guide - wondering how many draws I would need. The guide gave no indication, and this is the sort of information that I'd really expect to be getting from it!

...just a bit of genuine feedback from the troops so that you make it the best it can be. :)

bw
15/01/2010
6:11:23 PM
On 15/01/2010 voodoo wrote:
---
>I have a copy of the 2007 addition and I have to say it can be pretty
>difficult to locate climbs, especially where it's a climb that doesn't
>appear on a photo (or a whole area is without a photo).
>
>What would really assist is if some of the 'hardware' information was
>included in the description (eg "5 FH to DBB"). The Sun Surf and Sandstone
>guide is a beautiful example of this style, and I find it one of the easiest
>guides to get my bearings with. You can simply look up the rock and spot
>the routes based on the pattern of hardware present and very quickly work
>out what you're standing in front of. This is especially useful at a crag
>where none of the climbs are initialled (which is a bit of an annoying
>trend!).
>---

x2... overall a great guide - and the pics in there are great - really get me fired up to
climb :) cheers
onsight
15/01/2010
6:21:17 PM
Auspep & Voodoo

Thanks. Comments noted. I hope to improve a few things this time around. We are adding detail to many descriptions (especially for routes not in photos) and have more photos and maps which should help in locating climbs.

Regarding gear listed in descriptions, I think there is some debate how detailed this should be, but I agree, it's useful. We'll keep an eye on it particularly when things are a bit unusual (in the amount or type of gear) needed.
onsight
19/01/2010
1:15:57 PM
On 15/01/2010 WM wrote:
>is Bald Head going in?

I can't say for sure at the moment, I'll have a better idea in a few weeks when I can see how the project is tracking. Bald Head is reasonably high on the list of places I'd like to put in, but it's not at the top. At least there is info already available for those who want it... so some other areas are getting higher priority.

What do you think? Does anyone ever climb there?
bones
19/01/2010
1:42:37 PM
very small thing - next to the photos maybe put the climb grade beside the name? Just saves looking up the climb if you think you want to do it..

Loved the earlier guide though

pmonks
19/01/2010
3:51:45 PM
Consider this another vote for Bald Head. Serendipitous Cracks is a classic multi-pitch, and if the wall to the right of it hasn't been grid bolted by now no one has shown it to Mikl and/or Neil. ;-) Advanced Air Studio should be on everyone's tick list - quite possibly the most exposed route at the grade in the Blueys, if not the country! And who hasn't seen the photo of Mark Baker on "Life of Riley" and not wondered why they can't find it in any published guidebook?!?

[EDIT] And don't forget the single pitch of shocking choss Andrew and I did underneath AAS somewhere. Thank god we chose to bail!
hipster
19/01/2010
4:46:43 PM
Life of Riley is at the Sporting Complex, Medlow Bath. It's a crackin' route. Do you mean the photo of Mark on Just Don't Smoke?

pmonks
19/01/2010
5:13:02 PM
Probably my premature senility playing up again. All I remember for sure is it was the centrefold in one of the early 90s Rock magazines - Mark way out in the middle of nowhere on this exposed dead vertical orange wall. I think the route was a grade 26?
simey
19/01/2010
11:13:32 PM
On 19/01/2010 pmonks wrote:
>Probably my premature senility playing up again. All I remember for sure
>is it was the centrefold in one of the early 90s Rock magazines - Mark
>way out in the middle of nowhere on this exposed dead vertical orange wall.
> I think the route was a grade 26?

I think your premature senility is playing up again.
Gareth
20/01/2010
12:02:53 AM
My only feedback is to go back to 3 stars. 5 is kind of like adding "half stars" in between on a 3 star system. Sounds dumb to me. "That one is 2 and a half stars out of 3".
Using 3 stars gives you 4 increments (0,1,2,3). Do you really need 6 increments for quality? Why not go to 10 stars?
To me glancing through a guide with 5 stars, the 3,4 and 5 star routes all just register as "lots of stars", whereas with a 3 star system the 3 star routes really stand out, which is what you want I think.
Gareth
20/01/2010
12:05:54 AM
Oh yeah, and I can imagine how much work is involved so well done on that front.
Oh and from the '02 guide, the page in the front with the table of crags and when they get sun/climbability in rain etc was really useful. Here it is... page 8 it's titled "Beta"

pmonks
20/01/2010
3:15:37 AM
On 19/01/2010 simey wrote:
>I think your premature senility is playing up again.

Better than that other "premature" condition though, hey simey? ;-)

~> heh heh heh heh heh heh heh <~
J.C.
20/01/2010
10:49:22 AM
I'm sure Life of Riley was in the '02 guide
spicelab
20/01/2010
11:06:44 AM
Given the continual decline in rock quality of the new crags developed in the past 5 years in particular, I reckon a choss rating system is in order.

There are a number of proxies you could use:
- average number of breaking holds per ascent;
- average amount of glue per square metre; and
- estimated time before the entire crag falls down.

linze
21/01/2010
2:27:34 PM
On 20/01/2010 spicelab wrote:
>Given the continual decline in rock quality of the new crags developed
>in the past 5 years in particular, I reckon a choss rating system is in
>order.
>
>There are a number of proxies you could use:
>- average number of breaking holds per ascent;
>- average amount of glue per square metre; and
>- estimated time before the entire crag falls down.
>
I like this... except that it would be redundant within three minutes of the book going onto the shelves. As such I suggest the development of a ‘choss assessment matrix’. On the x axis you would probably just have months since the guide was published, but the y axis would be more difficult. It would need to encompass a wealth of detail including the gluing habits of the first ascensionist and the likelihood of actually finding some quality under the choss. After the invention of the ‘CHAM’ we would be able to strategically map out the next few years of Sundays to ensure that we got to these new spots when the routes were at their most stable (which I understand is just prior to complete collapse).

Also should the comments for each route mention the visionary souls that removed key pieces of choss over the years to clear the path for the quality assents of today. The key example that comes to mind is the visionary removal of that pesky jug that used to spoil the middle of Apraxia. Shouldn’t everyone know who to quietly thank while joyfully going up to that gaston that was just begging to be uncovered.... makes me wonder what quality lyes just metres below the current crop of choss....

>
martym
22/01/2010
11:09:58 PM
Wow, has it been 3 years already? I think the 07 guide really set a new standard for guidebooks, which was nicely followed by the new Araps guide a year later; from a consumer - cheers for all the great work!
As a commuter climber who usually spends two or three nights a week up around Mt York or camping next to a firetrail, it would be nice if you could suss out more campsites & which crags they're close to. Also, we're constantly trying to find a place you can catch the train to & climb.. rules out all of Bells Line unfortunately.
Also, I think the walk in times were recorded without heavy packs on... slightly more realistic approach times would be nice.

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There are 36 messages in this topic.

 

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