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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
Author
Climbing = dancing?

bluey
15/06/2009
1:26:38 PM
So we all know ex-dancers, ex-gymnasts and ex-divers etc generally make good climbers because of their core strength and flexibility. My question relates to a specific aspect of the dancer's skill bag - turn-out from the hips. I have crap hip-flexibility in the left to right sense (as opposed to up and down) and what's more, when I've been climbing for a bit, pushing upwards with my foot turned outwards gets very bloody painful.

I figure the pain is me working against my natural inflexibility, and then I begin to dream wistfully of what it would be like to be doing the same move if I was an ex-ballerina - probably not wearing a tutu, but open to pink tights.... but definitely having hips that happily and smoothly allow my legs to turn outwards. Additionally, I reckon having greater flexibility in that way would allow me to keep my hips closer to the rock face, which I gather is good technique.

Anyone got any theories about connections between dancer-type hip flexibility and good climbing? Any ex-dancers or others got good ideas about how to improve this flexibility?
Lee C
15/06/2009
1:37:30 PM
Google 'pnf stretch' and google image search 'adductor stretch', 'glute stretch'. You'll be sorted!
martin saint
15/06/2009
1:56:16 PM
I have fantastic turn-out - can make a 90 angle with my toes pointing backwards (7 years of classical ballet as a kid) and I'm still a truly crap climber - but I think that's related to everything else I can't do - crap coordination.

In my limited experience (no expert here) you want to work on flexibility while active - so exercises that engage your muscles whilst stretching them - as an example of why this is useful - I can often put my foot on high steps that I can't use because I can't engage my hamstrings at full stretch to stand up, so having that full stretch (that you get from passive stretches) isn't that useful. It's a bit of a cliche, but yoga is good for engaging muscles while stretching, especially in the hips because many standing poses require you to maintain that rotation.

ajfclark
15/06/2009
2:59:23 PM
On 15/06/2009 martin saint wrote:
>It's a bit of a cliche, but yoga is good for engaging muscles while stretching, especially in the hips because many standing poses require you to maintain that rotation.

Seconded. I've found yoga very helpful for some thing I knew I had problems with (like hips and hamstrings) and some things that I didn't realise were quite such a problem (like the very poor ROM in my shoulders). Some are getting better just from doing yoga on a regular basis while my shoulders have benefited a lot from osteopathy on top of that.

Eduardo Slabofvic
15/06/2009
3:06:22 PM
On 15/06/2009 Lee C wrote:
>Google 'pnf stretch' and google image search 'adductor stretch', 'glute
>stretch'. You'll be sorted!

Are you sure I only have to Google it?

I'll try googling "Independently Wealthy" and "Well hung" and see what happens.

Eduardo Slabofvic
15/06/2009
3:08:10 PM
On 15/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I'll try googling "Independently Wealthy" and "Well hung" and see what
>happens.

Hey! It works!
Wendy
15/06/2009
3:57:44 PM
Welcome to the laziest climbing training you have ever done. Find some form of passive entertainment (book, tv, music, conversation partner). Lie on your back. Pull your feet up, soles together and lob your knees outwards. Hang out for a while. And a bit longer. Half an hour is not overkill. When you get pretty good at this, roll over and do it on your tummy, trying to pull your feet to the ground. Time is the only investment needed and it will be really good for your climbing.

I'm sure yoga is really good for your climbing too, but I have never had the patience for it. I like to chat at the same time and apparantly this is a nono. But I'm not so sure that it's active stretching - many stretches are still pretty passively forced by the position and pushing/pulling with other body bits. Isn't active stretching when you use the muscle itself to pull it into its full range of movement? Ie, you could get that foot over your head just with the muscles in your leg, no assistance ... This is what you need for things like getting a foot to a high or wide hold and I think it's best gained by (a) getting some passive stretching going on so you have the range of movement, then (b) pulling the limb to the extent of its range and then use its muscles to hold it there, then (c) getting the limb as far as you can by itself. I'm also not sure it matters much with turn out. Your core muscles will be pulling you into the rock, not your hips twisting themselves out, i think they just naturally go there if they can.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/06/2009
4:06:15 PM
On 15/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I'll try googling "Independently Wealthy" and "Well hung" and see what happens.

>Hey! It works!

... does this mean Hero is in danger of being ditched now?
(ie no need to hang around with the rich and famous crowd...)
HehXHero
citationx
16/06/2009
7:47:03 AM
On 15/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>On 15/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>>I'll try googling "Independently Wealthy" and "Well hung" and see what
>>happens.
>
>Hey! It works!

That's a great result for just under two minutes worth of googling...
martin saint
16/06/2009
9:18:09 AM
Isn't active stretching when you use the muscle itself
>to pull it into its full range of movement? Ie, you could get that foot
>over your head just with the muscles in your leg, no assistance ...

Umm not sure what type of yoga you've done, but the type I have involves an awful lot of that - then again we're also allowed to talk - so my yoga may be the exception to the rule.

This
>is what you need for things like getting a foot to a high or wide hold

Again - getting the foot to the hold is never the problem I have (and I see a lot of other people with the same problem as me) - it is using the foot once it's on the hold that proves difficult.
Wendy
16/06/2009
10:37:19 AM
On 16/06/2009 martin saint wrote:
>Isn't active stretching when you use the muscle itself
>>to pull it into its full range of movement? Ie, you could get that foot
>>over your head just with the muscles in your leg, no assistance ...
>
>Umm not sure what type of yoga you've done, but the type I have involves
>an awful lot of that - then again we're also allowed to talk - so my yoga
>may be the exception to the rule.

I'm thinking about things like dog, cobra, warrior, turtle - they are all helped into the position by other body bits and the floor. Bends are pulled down from the toes, legs are lifted up by the toes. Talking gets in the way of breathing in the right sequence, hence I'm apparently missing the most important bit by chatting away! I'd never say yoga was bad for your climbing though, just not the bees knees for climbing.

>
> This
>>is what you need for things like getting a foot to a high or wide hold
>
>Again - getting the foot to the hold is never the problem I have (and
>I see a lot of other people with the same problem as me) - it is using
>the foot once it's on the hold that proves difficult.

Really? I was thinking about those high steps when people take a hand off to pull their foot onto the hold. I admit to still having to do that occasionally! Or to wiggle the foot up against the rock! Are you sure that if you are struggling to use the foot hold once you are there you don't need strength training more than flexibility, like one legged squats?
martin saint
16/06/2009
10:53:58 AM
On 16/06/2009 Wendy wrote:
>Are you sure that
>if you are struggling to use the foot hold once you are there you don't
>need strength training more than flexibility, like one legged squats?

Nope - can already do that sort of stuff, but your leg/glute in a squat is not as anywhere near as extended as it is when you have your foot above your hip (which engages lower back muscles differently and is just a whole different kettle of fish).

I would never say yoga was the bees knees for climbing either, just might address the particular problem Bluey inquired about.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and admit I think in almost all cases the best training for climbing is climbing.

foreverabumbly
16/06/2009
11:33:56 AM
On 16/06/2009 Wendy wrote:
>

>I'm thinking about things like dog, cobra, warrior, turtle - they are
>all helped into the position by other body bits and the floor. Bends are
>pulled down from the toes, legs are lifted up by the toes.

Wendy, try holding these poses for 10 minutes, that is when the core gets involved. You also have to aproach the stretches in the right way. By lowering your shoulders, gaining height by 'pushing down' pushing forward through your belly button. Im not trying to argue, I also agree that yoga isnt the be all and end all of climbing, it isnt the ultimute answer.

But the stretches do work the core muscles, and it is active stretching when done correctly. Perhaps your flexibility is too great for the simple poses you were mentioning?

If so perhaps you should be trying these
:)

Me, I cant even touch my toes - I scored -10 on my stretch test - so those poses definatly work my muscles like a mofo.

cookie
22/06/2009
4:37:39 PM
If you are interested, perhaps check out a reformer session or more at a pilates studio. Pilates, like yoga is great for sg whilst keeping the core muscles stabilised, however Pilates was specifically developed for dancers... eugh i sound like an infomercial.

mat pilates classes all being fine for core stability, flexibility and muscle lenghtening, you really need to get on the reformer if you want to work on turn out etc. i personally love it so much i'm planning on building a reformer in the next few months.
mikl law
22/06/2009
5:19:58 PM
I can dance longer and harder than i can climb.

It doesn't help

contactgav
22/06/2009
10:39:51 PM
on the basis of this theory, after eleventy beers or a night of class A's, should i be attempting my projects?
bring back the hell fire club so i can head out to the crag on Sunday afternoon

ajfclark
22/06/2009
10:48:02 PM
On 22/06/2009 oldfella wrote:
>on the basis of this theory, after eleventy beers or a night of class A's, should i be attempting my projects?

If fear is holding you back, I can certainly see particular class As helping out... Don't think it's a good idea in general though.

Zebedee
22/06/2009
11:47:46 PM
The thing that links climbing to dancing is that when you doing either well your ego is subsumed into your body, the only thing is the move, it's graceful, effortless and joyful. You don't think anything you just climb/dance. It aint about how you look, or who looks or who you can tell afterwards, the movement is an end in itself. Climb you fūckers dance and climb.

ajfclark
23/06/2009
8:13:40 AM
On 22/06/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>If fear is holding you back, I can certainly see particular class As helping out... Don't think it's a good idea in general though.

They don't always help with the dancing either.
BA
23/06/2009
10:57:27 AM
Climb as if no one is watching?

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
There are 22 messages in this topic.

 

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