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star vs no star


Trogdor

23-Mar-2007
9:10:24 AM

Sorry for a stupid, noob question, but what do the stars mean in a climb? Does it mean it's just more funner, or harder? So if there are two grade 15 climbs, one w/ 3 stars, and the other has 0, that means...??

patto

23-Mar-2007
9:19:47 AM

A star means that the climb is considered to be more enjoyable that a climb with less stars. The star ranking goes up to 3 stars.

The awarding of stars is obviously very subjective. Stars are sometimes biased towards older and more 'classic' climbs. People new to an area with as many climbs as arapiles will often stick to climbing starred climbs as there as so many to choose from.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

23-Mar-2007
9:34:45 AM

Most guidebooks explain their 'star' system, if indeed they use one ...

>Stars are sometimes biased towards older and more 'classic' climbs.
This is a natural result of the best lines at any given location usually being done 1st (!), and not a result of bias imo.

If any bias is evident it is more likely to be guidebook authors who also had a hand in 'developing' an area*.

(*Post edit:) ~> reference ...

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?ForumID=10&Action=Display&MessageID=2331&PagePos=0&Sort=

Recent 'tongue in cheek' example!
Heh, heh, heh.

TLockwood

23-Mar-2007
9:36:19 AM

On 23/03/2007 patto wrote:
>A star means that the climb is considered to be more enjoyable that a climb
>with less stars. The star ranking goes up to 3 stars.

stars mean a lot more than being enjoyable,
they indicate the quality of the climb in regards to the soundness of the rock, the quality of the protection if it is trad, the access and descent, etc, etc


tmarsh

23-Mar-2007
9:54:17 AM

The whole starring thing, like grading, is very subjective. I've always thought it to mean something like:
* = one of the best routes at the cliff, or in the local area
** = one of the best routes in the state
*** = one of the best routes in the country, or perhaps a route of immense historical significance

Which doesn't explain how anything at the You Yangs can have any more than one star, but like I said it's very subjective.

Bob Saki

23-Mar-2007
10:11:57 AM

On 23/03/2007 tmarsh wrote:
>>
>Which doesn't explain how anything at the You Yangs can have any more
>than one star, but like I said it's very subjective.

2 words mate,

"Bankcard Welcome"


bluey

23-Mar-2007
10:48:10 AM

From a novice/intermediate climber's point of view, I reckon stars can often mean e.g. "Grade 11 - but a whole lot harder/more exciting than your average 11 therefore enjoyable for harder grade climbers. Note: actual grade 11 climbers may not be able to complete this route, or may have the wind put up them by some very decent levels of exposure".

Fish Boy

23-Mar-2007
10:54:27 AM

Consistant climbing for the grade will give many a star.

patto

23-Mar-2007
10:56:01 AM

On 23/03/2007 TLockwood wrote:
>On 23/03/2007 patto wrote:
>>A star means that the climb is considered to be more enjoyable that a
>climb
>>with less stars. The star ranking goes up to 3 stars.
>
>stars mean a lot more than being enjoyable,
>they indicate the quality of the climb in regards to the soundness of
>the rock, the quality of the protection if it is trad, the access and descent,
>etc, etc

Are you sure about that? Of course quality of rock, quality of protection, access, expose, etc all affect the enjoyment of a climb, so naturally it will affect the star grading. However I was never under the impression that stars were anything but a subjective rating of how 'good' the climb is.

There are certainly alot of climbs with poor protection that are given stars. I wouldn't want beginners thinking that stars mean good protection.

**(But of course many here may know better than me and have been putting up routes since i was in nappies so feel free to put me back in my box if im wrong.)


oweng

23-Mar-2007
11:09:32 AM

My basic theory on three star routes is:

1 star for being asperational (i.e. the visual appeal of the line from the ground. If you look at it and think wow I really want to do that it deserves a star);
1 star for having good rock quality
1 star for being sustained at the grade or a challenging lead (gear wise).

So to me a three star route has to be sustained for the grade, have good rock, and be a route that you look at and think wow!

So using an example at Araplies, D Minor, its the obvious easiest line to the top of the pinnicle. Thats as pure as you can get as 'asperational'. The rock quality is awesome. But it only has a couple of metres in 30 or 40 that are at its grade. So to me that would be a two star route.

Something like Missing Link to me would be three stars as it has great rock, is asperational, and is a sustained intricate lead if your climbing at that grade.

23-Mar-2007
11:26:21 AM

Good theory Owen.


gordoste

23-Mar-2007
11:49:56 AM

yes all those things contribute to it but everything at araps would have a star as the rock is all fantastic.


rodw

23-Mar-2007
11:54:17 AM

Here is my take take
* = good quality fun climb
** = good fun quality climb put up by a friend of the guidebook author
*** = good fun quality climb put up by the guide book author

Ronny

23-Mar-2007
11:55:44 AM

On 23/03/2007 Trogdor wrote:

>more funner

Yes.

A mix of all of what has been said will go it to it - but this pretty well sums it up.


oweng

23-Mar-2007
12:45:53 PM

On 23/03/2007 gordoste wrote:
>yes all those things contribute to it but everything at araps would have
>a star as the rock is all fantastic.

True, but alot of that fantastic rock is covered by moss and lichen. Plenty of routes have loose blocks on them as well. But overall, many of the 'no star' routes at araplies would be given a star if they were in other climbing areas.

I guess you have to be a bit careful giving too many routes in one area stars (even if the climb deserves it) as it makes it hard to determine which are the best routes.

An example of this would be Hillwood down here in tassie. Great climbing area, but in my opinion probably too many of the climbs have been given 2 or 3 stars. It makes it hard to identify which are the 'cherrys'.

Andrew Martin introduced a 'four star' grading for his Frog Buttress guide that I though was a good idea. I think he used it for 3 or 4 routes that are undisputed mege-classics, to help visitors identify the absolute cream of the crop.


nmonteith

23-Mar-2007
12:50:12 PM

I agree with Owens rules!


tnd

23-Mar-2007
1:03:19 PM

1 star - one of the guide book author's buddies is the FA
2 stars - the guide book author's best mate is the FA
3 stars - the guide book author is the FA


dougal

23-Mar-2007
1:17:00 PM

7 routes were given the 'new' 4 star rating in the new frog guide. Next year all climbs will re re up graded (age improves them :)). Great guide, informative, funny but IMO (as gord. mentioned re araps) a little unnecessary.

23-Mar-2007
1:23:54 PM

>1 star for being asperational (i.e. the visual appeal of the line from the ground. If you >look at it and think wow I really want to do that it deserves a star);
>1 star for having good rock quality
>1 star for being sustained at the grade or a challenging lead (gear wise).

Another good example Owen is Kachoong.

It has good rock, but is let down by its inconsistancy and lack of stature/height..
One star.


oweng

23-Mar-2007
1:32:58 PM

On 23/03/2007 kp wrote:
>>1 star for being asperational (i.e. the visual appeal of the line from
>the ground. If you >look at it and think wow I really want to do that it
>deserves a star);
>>1 star for having good rock quality
>>1 star for being sustained at the grade or a challenging lead (gear wise).
>
>
>Another good example Owen is Kachoong.

>It has good rock, but is let down by its inconsistancy and lack of stature/height..
>One star.

I havent tried it yet Kent, so cant comment, but I would argue that it would get an asparational star as well, as so many people have admired the photographs and dreamed of doing the route. If its inspired someone before they have tried it, they will get a lot out of doing it (even if the route isnt quite as good as hoped).

The more important question is how many stars will the "Alan Parsons Project" get when you finaly do it? Does our grading system need to be expanded to better reflect the significance of this route???!

There are 35 messages in this topic.