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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion
General Climbing Discussion
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8:12:42 PM |
Well here goes… I have decided to start writing some of the situations I have been in bouldering in Victoria (not that I have been climbing/bouldering for long). I first started climbing out of pure boredom, being from the country and being shipped off to boarding school in Melbourne was the start of a beautiful relationship. I was sent to a supposedly prestigious school located near the botanical gardens in South Yarra, and had very few friends initially, so I had to find a hobby so I decided to buy a pair of shoes and a chalk bag and climb at Burnley. At first I was really frustrated about how bad I was at climbing. Physically I could not hang from the holds without my feet splaying and flailing everywhere, other climbers would laugh as I bumbled my way along the route. Burnley was a place that I could go and be by myself and at one with what I was doing, I felt at peace with what was around me and didn’t really think about things such as being homesick etc. Moving along a little I decided to go for a climb at Victoria Ranges climbing centre, it was here that I would spend hours swearing at myself for falling off climbs. It was also the first indoor center that I had ever been to, the bouldering cave was amazing! After a few weeks of “playing” I decided to start trying some of the routes, at first the only climbs that I could tick were vertical traverses that had easy moves and were not all that hard to finish. It was not until the “fun box” in the center of the bouldering area that the real climbers started to come and train. Watching some of these climbers train was so frustrating as firstly they were way better than me, not only that they were strangers so I didn’t really have all that much to do with them. When Vic Ranges burnt down, I had nowhere to train so I would find bluestone walls to climb on in my spare time. On my holidays I would drive out to Mt Hope and climb all day, it was while climbing at Mt Hope I first got into trouble for climbing. Being new to the sport of climbing I had no idea about where I could climb or not climb, so I took my trusty crash pad and threw lap after lap around a boulder aptly named “The Devils lost nut…’ (don’t ask me who named the boulder). A land owner near Mt Hope reported me to Parks, it was at this stage that I was approached by a Parks officer and asked a whole heap of questions about what I was doing. I won’t go into what happened, lets just say that the parks officer knew that I was not in the wrong and that the land owner had way to much time on his hands. The land on which I was climbing was crown land. The problem that I have with the whole “where to climb, where not to climb” situation is that there are never any signs saying “No rock climbing” in areas that a lot of my friends climb, but we are still hassled by land owners that don’t even own the land on which we are climbing. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so how did they fare, and what was done about it by the authorities? Does anyone have any objections, comments about the future of rock climbing in Australia? From an ecological point of view there are a lot of positive things being done by highly respected clubs in Victoria, such as the VCC. What do clubs think about the authorities that maintain the areas that people climb in? I have seen a lot of climbers start new climbs by taking to rocks with wire brushes, what do people think about such practises. Is this even legal? I have started new bouldering routes at Mt Hope and at Mt Terriks, all the climbs that I tried and established were on granite faces. Most of the faces were devoid of any moss or other plant life, so I decided to climb on them. What if any are the do’s and don’ts of establishing new boulering routes? Feel free to criticise or critique anything that I have put forward, as I’m trying to learn from people that have been climbing/bouldering for longer than me. I would like to learn more about the ethics of bouldering, so as to not make wrong decisions. I hope that my rantings have evoked positive thoughts and that I’m not flamed to death by people that don’t feel like being constructive. Cheers Tristan Peace |
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9:36:34 PM |
Surprised that you have been hassled at Mt Hope! I spent a bit of time climbing there in the past. It wasn't the farmer whos entrance is up from the picnic area? More recently I did check out Mt Hope and Pyramid Hill for winter bouldering potential (interested what you did out at Mt Terrick Terrick only had the short easy dome where the few Sedgman climbs are). If it's your local, have you checked out the super steep, clean block sitting in the middle of the quarry to the left of the picnic area? Also just above the carpark at Pyramid Hill is an interesting slightly overhanging featured boulder, plus a couple interesting faces around from the golf clubhouse. Most public lands flora and fauna protection tends to be high in the list of aims. Therefore cleaning will be frowned upon... though this doesn't mean that climbers haven't done this. It has varied from a quick brush of the holds with the hand whilst doing the problem to full scale deforestation, comfortizing holds, clearing landing etc. Ideally a minimal impact approach is preferred. Especially as if it's a far away location where no one will ever repeat the problem, it's a lot of work for one ascent! |
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9:49:38 PM |
Yeah it was the guy that lives on the other side of the car park, he has a beard and a really bad temper. I thought that he was going to smash my ute window with a rock. The quarry has a lot of climbs that are only a few moves but VERY hard! The problem with them is that they are all above the remaining rock face. A fall will do you a lot of damage. I just climb along the blasting holes. If you go around the back of Mt Hope there are a lot of crack climbs that aren't all that high they are good for layback training, but be careful of the snakes in summer as they love hiding in the cracks! (ALWAYS TAKE COMPRESSION BANDAGES) If bitten go to the hospital in Cohuna, as they have the best snake kit in the area, and have well trained staff. One of my mates wants to put some bolts in the quarry face and see if there is anyone out there crazy enough to try and climb it. |
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9:58:54 PM |
On 1/06/2006 Peacey wrote: > The quarry has a lot of climbs that are only a >few moves but VERY hard! The problem with them is that they are all above >the remaining rock face. I mean't not the quarry walls but the super steep piece lying in the bottom of the quarry. There are some super steep sit starts... A few good lines but too few and too far from Melbourne. |
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10:09:13 PM |
Ahhh I know the chunk that you are talking about, way to hard for me. | |||||
8:31:30 AM |
>Bouldering Ethics?? Why should they be any different to climbing ethics in general? Speaking from a bearded trad backgound, you only need worry when someone starts bolting your free-climbed boulders ! (... that should get them going; ... heh, heh, heh !). :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Post edit >What if any are the do’s and don’t of establishing new boulering routes? I am not a boulderer per se, but see this genre of the game as being the next to make incredible advances. With this will come numbers both in participation rates and grades achieved. My concerns are broader and extend to access issues, cultural issues associated with certain areas etc. Flora and fauna issues are obvious public relations chestnuts that have been around for a while. I would not enjoy seeing authorities banning access using the old 'due to peregrines' cliche for isolated boulders located half a km from clifflines !; and equally I would not enjoy seeing vegetation denuded at the base of boulders due to high impact numbers of climbers wrecking it with usage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2nd post edit. Years ago (?) the attitude to learning aid climbing was to practise on boulders and quarries where no-one cared what 'damage' was done to the rock, as these were not regarded as serious climbing venues. ... I wonder if some of my earliest climbs are now (or will be?), regarded as bouldering classics, now that a bit of lichen has reclaimed any piton scars? Hang around long enough and it is interesting to note how things/attitudes change ! |
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9:11:10 AM |
Avoid the wire brush unless absolutely necessary (and even then use it carefully/sparingly. Most of the time a stiff toothbrush will do the job. And don't make a mess. Huge chalky splats and donkey lines are highly visible. Clean off your chalk (and tickmarks if you're lame enough to use them) when you're done. |
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9:19:07 AM |
I know that using wire brushes can be damaging to the rock, but how does one tell people that use them all the time not to do so. Most of the time I get told where to go.. How can climbers be educated, if they are ignorant to the damage that they may be causing? What do people if confronted with such a situation usually do to rectify problems? |
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9:31:10 AM |
>What do people if confronted with such a situation usually do to rectify problems? Threaten them with my hammer. Heh, heh, heh. ;) |
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9:40:25 AM |
On 2/06/2006 Stuey wrote: >Avoid the wire brush unless absolutely necessary (and even then use it >carefully/sparingly. Most of the time a stiff toothbrush will do the job. Agreed - most cleaning I do is with a super stiff scrubbing brush. Use of a wire brush though isn't such an issue on hard granite that Peacey is talking about. On Sandstone or Gritstone etc it can scrape through the top layer and damage the rock. >And don't make a mess. Huge chalky splats and donkey lines are highly >visible. Clean off your chalk (and tickmarks if you're lame enough to use >them) when you're done. Trying to leave with as little visible signs of being there is a good aim to achieve. Also try to minimise damage also to the Flora below the problems. |
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9:56:46 AM |
I agree that the use of a wire brush is not too much of an issue on granite, but what of the flakes that a lot of people enjoy climbing on? I have been to spots, just a few hundred meters from Suicide rock that have been destroyed by wire brushing. People have even used tools to chip pieces of rock off problems, they supposedly do this to stop less experienced climbers from completing "their problems". I don’t understand this mentality, have any other people heard of this happening or witnessed people damaging rock to spite others? As for the problem with chalk, I very rarely use calk while bouldering on natural problems. I mainly use chalk for training on synthetic holds. A lot of the climbs around Mt hope are just near the second car park, on the old Leitchville road. There are about 6-9 decent sized boulders in paddocks. They are the best place to train by far. Tristan |
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10:27:21 AM |
On 2/06/2006 Peacey wrote: >People have even used tools to chip pieces of rock off >problems, they supposedly do this to stop less experienced climbers from >completing "their problems". I don’t understand this mentality, have any >other people heard of this happening or witnessed people damaging rock >to spite others? Not heard of chipping done to spite others (apart from the famous Fontainbleau loony or maybe the 'Mechanical Animals incident') Most of the time people do it because they are either too crap to do an existing problem and try to improve the holds or they seek to create a new problem where there are no (or no decent) holds. Either way, it sucks. If you can't pull on the holds do something easier. If its a new problem and the holds are poor, don't improve them. Just because you can't pull on, doesn't mean that nobody can. |
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11:28:27 AM |
On 2/06/2006 Stuey wrote: >Avoid the wire brush unless absolutely necessary (and even then use it >carefully/sparingly. Most of the time a stiff toothbrush will do the job. & others have agreed with this sentiment. At the risk of being flamed I put forward the point of view that perhaps grading systems need to allow for climbing a line / boulder problem being in its natural state and that NO enhancement (including brushing of any kind) should take place. If trade routes become cleaner with usage then that is a price paid by classics, though I have not heard of people taking a wire brush to a polished route to roughen them up again. I have climbed plenty of lines that are dirty, or seeping etc. This is just a different kind of experience and if it does not appeal then waiting until the line comes into condition naturally (eg dries out), often achieves good results. Ice climbers do this all the time due to their fickle medium! To support this concept I suggest that Australia is blessed with an abundance of rock and relatively few climbers, and that if we spread the load the environment copes much better. It is the 'want it now - at any cost' attitude that is not only detrimental to our chosen medium, but also I suspect, detrimental to our integrity (see ~ Everest hero slams modern climbers thread). |
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12:45:38 PM |
On 2/06/2006 M9iswhereitsat wrote: >>It is the 'want it now - at any cost' attitude that is not only detrimental >to our chosen medium, but also I suspect, detrimental to our integrity >(see ~ Everest hero slams modern climbers thread). Lightly brushing dirt from a hold is not quite as bad as leaving a man to die. Anyway, the fact that we climb could be seen as detrimental to the rock enviroment. Feet scrabbling on holds, knocking loose stuff of with your hands, rope wear, gear placements etc. theres no getting away from it. What this means is that in doing what we do we should minimise the impact we have and there are 'guidelines' (for want of a better word) as to what is acceptable, inevitable 'damage' and what isn't. Its up to climbers to make it clear within the ranks that certain practices are unacceptable. However, adopting the puritan stance that you are taking would have us never leave the gym. |
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12:54:22 PM |
I see the point that you are making, I have never really been taught many guidelines for our sport. Are there such resources available? Tristan |
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1:31:54 PM |
Heres the bouldering '10 Commandments' published by the BMC in the UK: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/news_det.asp?item_id=808 If its too small to read, it says 1/ No Chipping 2/ No wirebrushing - Use a nylon brush when cleaning holds 3/ Use bouldering mats to reduce ground erosion and vegetation damage 4/ Clean and dry your footwear to reduce rock damage 5/ No Resin (pof) 6/ Minimise chalk use - Brush off any excessive build up 7/ Dry wet holds with a towel or wait for a windy day - No blow torching please 8/ Remove carpet patches or towels - they kill off vegetation and make a mess 9/ Take all litter home and follow the Countryside Code 10/ Leave vegetation in place - No gardening please. Whilst some of these are UK specific (Countryside Code etc) they all have their place here too. Generally people should think of their behaviour too, in how they come across to landowners and the non-climbing public. |
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4:21:34 PM |
>Lightly brushing dirt from a hold is not quite as bad as leaving a man to die. From a puritan ethical stance* it is still symptomatic of the same attitude. I do see your point however. * I still climb, and esp. being in the genre of aid climber; I can hardly be accused of being puritan! Heh, heh, heh. :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Post edit >guidelines for our sport. Are there such resources available? Most organisations take the time to document their stance (peruse the VCC site as an example). Many guidebooks these days also espouse clean climbing ethics. |
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4:39:24 PM |
On 2/06/2006 M9iswhereitsat wrote: >>Bouldering Ethics?? >Years ago (?) the attitude to learning aid climbing was to practise on >boulders and quarries where no-one cared what 'damage' was done to the >rock, as these were not regarded as serious climbing venues. >... I wonder if some of my earliest climbs are now (or will be?), regarded >as bouldering classics, now that a bit of lichen has reclaimed any piton >scars? and >From a puritan ethical stance* >* I still climb, and esp. being in the genre of aid climber; I can hardly >be accused of being puritan! No, I don't think you find in the puritan box M9... |
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6:03:21 PM |
be careful on some sandstone a day or 2 after rain as holds may snap off. | |||||
6:28:29 PM |
On 2/06/2006 Stuey wrote: >Heres the bouldering '10 Commandments' published by the BMC in the UK: > >http://www.thebmc.co.uk/news_det.asp?item_id=808 > >If its too small to read, it says > >1/ No Chipping >2/ No wirebrushing - Use a nylon brush when cleaning holds >3/ Use bouldering mats to reduce ground erosion and vegetation damage >4/ Clean and dry your footwear to reduce rock damage >5/ No Resin (pof) >6/ Minimise chalk use - Brush off any excessive build up >7/ Dry wet holds with a towel or wait for a windy day - No blow torching >please >8/ Remove carpet patches or towels - they kill off vegetation and make >a mess >9/ Take all litter home and follow the Countryside Code >10/ Leave vegetation in place - No gardening please. > >Whilst some of these are UK specific (Countryside Code etc) they all have >their place here too. Generally people should think of their behaviour >too, in how they come across to landowners and the non-climbing public. > These suggestions (Commandments?) all seem fairly reasonable, but one of the problems that appears to be arising in some Sydney bouldering areas, and maybe elsewhere, is that bouldering mats can contribute to vegetation damage. As to whether this damage (to vegetation) is greater than might occur if no bouldering mat were used is not clear but overseas evidence would suggest that they do not eliminate the problem entirely. Regretably I do not suggest I hold the answer! The growth in impacts from all forms of climbing that we are presently seeing is a function mainly of numbers -- the more participants the more impact. If we were to discourage our friends from taking up the activity would this lead to a reduction in impacts? Maybe not, so perhaps the best we can do is make them aware of the consequences of what they (we) are doing. |
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