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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 126
Author
New pitons on Watch Tower

shaggy
1/02/2005
3:01:22 PM
I was fairly shocked to learn the other day that the watchtower crack's 3rd belay was re-endowed with 2 new pitons in addition to the existing one, that make 3 pitons for those who were reaching for their calculators. There has always been adequate pro on the belay, maybe not at first glance, but apon closer inspection you find 2 good wires, a 3 cam, (down low in crack behind belay), plus the pin. The only problem now, (I am only assuming, as I haven't been up their since the enhancements) is that the pins have probably taken up and destroyed the good wire placements. My question is why someone thought they needed to add these pins, and get their justifications, I personally think that the route already has too many bolts anyway. The watch tower crack, is not something a novice climber gets on, and therefore people climbing it should have the knowledge of placing more intricate pro, It was the first 16 I had done, and never saw the problem with the pro, in fact that belay, has always been a novelty. If you didn't like the belay, you can always climb on past and do both last pitches in one.
But never the less, whilst your at it, why dont you drive a few pins into skinks hanging belay, to make that same and all! But don't stop there, maybe chuck a few into the reapers belay aswell.

Mike
1/02/2005
3:21:41 PM
On 1/02/2005 shaggy wrote:
> If you didn't like the belay, you can always climb on past and do both last pitches in one.

Or just climb 2 more metres, clip the first bolt of P4 and lower back to the belay stance, which is what I've done the half dozen times I've lead up it with larger parties. Then incorporate this with the small cams/wires. This also avoids the FF2 issue.

nmonteith
1/02/2005
4:09:41 PM
A number of years ago a party of visiting euros led Arachnus with a hammer and a bunch of pitons. They bashed them in all the way up! It took the second more than half an hour to remove one stubborn pin at the first belay ledge...

shaggy
3/02/2005
4:28:32 PM
Alrighty then, one question for the people then, should they stay or should they go. Personally I am inclined, when I go up to araps next, to pull the little suckers, obviously making sure that the natural pro is still there and hasn't been destroyed by the pins, but I am open for opinions (that aren't mine).

nmonteith
3/02/2005
4:36:50 PM
yep 'pull the pin'
yosemite05
3/02/2005
5:06:22 PM
Yeh, pull the pins and put some big stainless steel ringbolts in while you are there. Just kidding. Hope they are gone by Easter.
gfdonc
3/02/2005
5:42:32 PM
Naah, naah, wait, I've got a better idea.
Hack out a couple of #3 RP placements with a power tool of your choice.
Erect a plaque reading "Justin Thyme Memorial Belay Station". Bolt it in place with a couple of nice 5/16'' hex heads, stainless.
- Steve
kieranl
3/02/2005
8:03:45 PM
I would say pull the extra pins but leave the one that was already in.
The amount of fixed gear on this route has remained pretty constant over the years except for a varying number of bolts where the top bolt is - at one stage there were two manky carrots drooping down the face side-by side that I once saw being used for a hanging belay!
Interestingly the belay after the Skink traverse originally boasted a bolt. I think it was removed in the early seventies in one of those self-righteous purification crusades.

Eduardo Slabofvic
3/02/2005
9:21:50 PM
The pegs, at least, keep the fixed gear in keeping with time of the first ascent, as opposed to a three bolt belay.

...and by the way, can anyone tell me what you do with the third bolt?

cheesehead
3/02/2005
9:25:29 PM
Yep pull em.
If the natural placements have been destroyed, well, perhaps belt em back in (with a tear in your eye).
At least now if you do, it's not anonymous, and really it's not "shaggy's action", but everyone here who's consented.


If you do take em out, save them. When we find who placed em, we could all go round with ice axes and flaming fire twirling implements one night (crazy-villager style). Then crucify the poor suckers with their very own pitons...


shaggy
3/02/2005
9:29:04 PM
I like the way you think cheesy, but maybe a little too much buffy may have been watched?

ShinToe Warrior
3/02/2005
10:18:13 PM
I think the cheesemeister was proposing to pin the offenders Jesus-style , perhaps inverted in the way
the imperial romans seemed fond of... on one of the pines, in the pines. Bit of a bummer for the tree*,
although it could send a fairly strong message to the piton-heads to stay the freak away from the mount.


* the enviro-conscious Nati locals might supply some recycled timber to make a nice sturdy crucifix :)

cheesehead
3/02/2005
10:51:08 PM
Jesus is a dude. I guess we don't really want to spur on any retro-pegging movement. Imagine this movement in 2 milenia, with entire churches devoted to their cause...
(Like 'Life of Brian' - sorry if you're offended, but you're missing the point)

You're right about dissuading others Shin Toe. It's kinda like the severed heads on Clipsticks we found... (Or "English Cheater sticks" as the French call them)
kieranl
4/02/2005
11:26:16 AM
On 3/02/2005 ShinToe Warrior wrote:
>* the enviro-conscious Nati locals might supply some recycled timber to
>make a nice sturdy crucifix :)

I don't think any tears would be shed for a decaying feral pine being put to such good use.

Richard
4/02/2005
1:36:41 PM
for the sake of it i will add an opposing voice, I was kinda happy with the 3 pitions.

I would think there a re a fair number of novice climbers who do that route cause it's such a classic, I don't see what's so wrong with the *odd* extra bit of fixed pro....

The bolt on P4 is a tad high - the crux move sort of comes before clipping it, I thought,

As for running P3 & P4 together, its hard enough to communicate between the end of P4 and the start of P4, as for trying to comminicate all the way down to the start of P3, under the roof.

Rather than waste time taking them out, maybe it could be better spent replacing some crappy rusted bolt somewhere else...

I have only done the climb once, but it did appear that unless you had exactly the right sized gear (nuts), it could be hard to make a safe belay...

gordoste
4/02/2005
1:46:32 PM
I think they should be removed if that is the consensus. The accomplishments of the first ascensionists should be honoured by leaving the climb in its original state unless permission is granted to alter the climb. If it's too scary, climb something else.
kieranl
4/02/2005
1:59:43 PM
On 4/02/2005 Richard wrote:

>The bolt on P4 is a tad high - the crux move sort of comes before clipping
>it, I thought,
That's where the original bolt was so that's where the FH went. The original was put in on lead so should be respected (I've always wondered though, what was meant about Fahey being given the "bribe" of a bolt runner; did someone else go up and wack it in for him or was he just "promised" a spot where he could stop and drill).
A bit of trad beta: a tube chock can protect the moves from the belay to the bolt as well as to backup the belay. Haven't got a tube? I can probably lend you one if you want.

>
>As for running P3 & P4 together, its hard enough to communicate between
>the end of P4 and the start of P4, as for trying to comminicate all the
>way down to the start of P3, under the roof.

Totally agree. I prefer to break up between the two top pitches. I also prefer to run the first two pitches together. This really speeds things up and helps on a warm day as you don't have to bake in the sun on the first belay.

shaggy
4/02/2005
2:12:47 PM
As I said earlier, if your on that climb, you should be able to place gear, it's not a novice route by any means. Too scared??? Don't climb something so commanding then!
Wendy
4/02/2005
4:46:35 PM
Who the hell put them in and what were they thinking? I do think the gear is adequate - I won't say great, but it wouldn't be the only "adequate" belay at the mount. If you can't establish a belay in less than optimum conditions, don't go leading multi pitch 16s. Bumble around on easy stuff until you can. There's some gear out left anyway, besides you can always save a big cam for it. Or Keiran's tubes! Kieran, do you have a tube big enough for Power without Glory and Genuine wage Overhang? I'm in need of some really big gear!

Ways of going about putting in/replacing fixed gear on established routes at the mount have been set after a few early expeditions of the bolting fairies upset a few people. Anyone keen on adding to the belay on watchtower could have put it up for debate. I don't think it would have been popular though. I think replacing things with pitons is pretty crap anyway - they damage the rock and end up needing to be replaced again. If you're going to do something, do it bloody properly and put some decent bolts in. But not on that belay! 1000s of people have done it before without any extra.
richie cunningham
4/02/2005
4:59:45 PM
i know lots of folk that have rocked up to the mount and did this route as there first trad route. It's no biggie. Not a bad route either. Quite soft for the grade. The pins sound like they should remain. Placing thoes rp's is very silly... and time consuming to boot!

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There are 126 messages in this topic.

 

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