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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

10:27:39 AM
I have been pondering a couple of questions:

If you know a rescue service is available are you more likely to take more risks?

If the average cost of a rescue was >$10,000 and billed to the user would that affect how and what you climbed?

11:19:44 AM
On 15/08/2014 Vortex21 wrote:
>I have been pondering a couple of questions:
>If you know a rescue service is available are you more likely to take
>more risks?
>If the average cost of a rescue was >$10,000 and billed to the user would
>that affect how and what you climbed?

Slippery question that last one, especially in drawing the line on what is attempted, for example Alex Honnold on a big wall free-solo vs the lad in the squeeze test at Arapiles recently.
... I would suspect the Araps lad would now reckon it better to spend a little on slippery oil instead.

To add to your pondering.
What differing results would you expect from the different age demographics involved in the climbing games we play?

I think that many younger generation participants have a different mindset when it comes to these things than their historical forbears.

... ~> & would those results be different yet again, if a mobile phone with reception is handy or not?
Heh, heh, heh.

My answer to your 1st question.
The calculated (& impromptu), risks I take are the same irrespective of whether a rescue service is available.
I often wear a helmet.
I seldom take a phone.
11:49:24 AM
If a climber falls alone in the woods will anybody hear?

Online Now
1:41:55 PM
On 15/08/2014 Vortex21 wrote:
>If the average cost of a rescue was >$10,000 and billed to the user would that affect how and what you climbed?

This isn't as hypothetical as you think. From :

Emergency attendance fees - no transport
Metropolitan, Regional and Rural $481.00

Emergency road transport fees
Emergency cases classified by the Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority as having a final priority of 3 or lower will be charged as emergency transports.

Metropolitan Emergency Road $1,115.00

Regional and Rural Emergency Road $1,645.00

Air transport fees
The classification of emergency or non-emergency is not relevant for air transport fees. The type of transport - rotary or fixed wing - determines the fee. Reflecting the cost of service delivery, fees for air transport comprise two components: 1) a fixed charge based on respective usage which is levied separately in advance via a lump sum(s); and 2) a variable charge for each time the air transport is used which is levied per transport.

*For other users of fixed wing aircraft, this is combined into the one variable fee - charged per transport. For other users who use the rotary aircraft, Government has waived the fixed charge.

Air transport fees do not include any road transport associated with the air transport. Road transports a billed separately, as per the fees above.

TAC DVA VWA Public Hospitals Other users*
Fixed Wing
Variable charge (per transport) $1,977.00 $1,977.00 $1,977.00 $1,977.00 $4,651.00

Variable charge (per transport) $9,946.00 $9,946.00 $9,946.00 $9,946.00 $9,946.00

I don't know if you get changed a non-transport fee for the ambulance that shows up at the crag prior to you getting choppered out, but either way, the above fees are a very good reason to have AV membership, even if not climbing. Worth checking with your private health cover too. Some only cover the first $500 or $100 and some request preauthorisation of air lifts.
1:43:16 PM
On 15/08/2014 Vortex21 wrote:
>I have been pondering a couple of questions:
>If you know a rescue service is available are you more likely to take
>more risks?
>If the average cost of a rescue was >$10,000 and billed to the user would
>that affect how and what you climbed?

I find that the fear of death, spinal injury and compound fractures are a major influence on how and what I climb. The ease or otherwise of being whisked off screaming in a helicopter doesn't come into it.
12:08:39 AM
Do you think the same numpties who don't read the guide book; don't bring enough water; start climbing way after lunch time; don't have the right experience and knowledge; don't tell friends what they're doing & don't have a back up plan would somehow know about a $10,000 services bill?

Online Now
8:18:05 AM
That's why I post about it when I get the chance. A lot of people don't realise that ambulance services cost money, and in the case of air transport, significantly so.

I'll admit when I moved to Victoria, I assumed my private health insurance would cover it. On closer investigation, I found I was covered, but in the case of air transport, only if I called first to get it authorised. Hard to do when you're unconscious.
10:22:55 AM
I know of people actively declining helicopter transport from Arapiles or avoiding calling an ambulance because of cost (one just last week).
They didn't alter their climbing plans because of the availability of rescue but tried to restrict the cost after hurting themselves. It's really false economy.
If you're injured in country Victoria and get offered a chopper ride to a Melbourne trauma unit grab it with both hands. You will get immediate access to the best specialists in whatever field your injuries require. Go by road to to the local hospital and you'll get good care but you won't have the specialists on tap.
10:51:05 AM
I'm with Kieran - the possibility of hurting myself guides my risk assessment far more than the cost of rescue. Having said that, I quite like the access to emergency service provided by modern technology. Back in the 90s I didn't even have a mobile phone. You just accepted that if shit happened, you had to get yourselves out or manage the situation until someone fetched help. Now I'm quite happy to have my EPRIB on remote trips. Good judgement can't always prevent medical emergencies like heart attacks, strokes, DKA, snake bites, pancreatitis ... even bad sprains and slipped discs when you are a week's walk from help. I've never had to use it, but I like the idea that I can should I need it.

9:19:16 PM
Pain avoidance is a bigger factor than cost avoidance for me!

There are 10 messages in this topic.


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