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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
Author
Advice on half ropes
strerror
13/01/2013
12:09:07 AM
I've always climbed on single ropes, initially a 10.2 petzl nomad, and currently on a 9.7 tendon master. I was happy with both ropes, but increasingly been interested in using half rope system. My issue though is that I weigh 96kg and with a full rack that's significantly over all of the usual stats associated with rope tests and the like. I found this link:
http://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/1942/ideal-and-minimal-rope-diameter-for-lead-climbing
Which seems to suggest that even a 15 fall half rope will barely give me 1 decent fall at my weight. Does this match other people's understanding / experience? Am I simply to big to climb on half ropes safely (or safely for one fall only!) ?

On a related note is it accurate to say that when using a half rope system, though it's obviously situation dependent, it's relatively common to really only be falling on effectively one strand?

wallwombat
13/01/2013
1:21:59 AM
On 13/01/2013 strerror wrote:
>. Does this match other people's understanding
>/ experience?

No

>Am I simply to big to climb on half ropes safely (or safely
>for one fall only!) ?

No

>On a related note is it accurate to say that when using a half rope system,
>though it's obviously situation dependent, it's relatively common to really
>only be falling on effectively one strand?

Yes.

Use double 9.2 mm's, if you you are that worried and you think you are a fatty.

Personally I wouldn't sweat on it.

John Long had (and has) about 25 kg on you.

You could probably hang your car off a modern double rope and the whole point is you have TWO ropes - if something goes snafu with one rope, you have a back up

Miguel75
13/01/2013
12:48:54 PM
At my peak I weighed just over 100kg (I now weigh under 90) and climbed on Edelweiss 9mm doubles. I've had some biggish falls on them and never really stressed too much.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
13/01/2013
2:55:03 PM
On 13/01/2013 wallwombat wrote:
>>On 13/01/2013 strerror wrote:
>>On a related note is it accurate to say that when using a half rope system,
>>though it's obviously situation dependent, it's relatively common to really only be falling on effectively one strand?
>
>Yes.

I'd say it depends entirely on where the protection that the ropes are clipped to is placed, relative to rope management by the leader.
In my experience it is quite rare that a single strand ever takes the whole fall, as there is usually significant tension in the second rope once the fall is caught, that I assume gets there progressively.
strerror
13/01/2013
7:04:38 PM
Thanks for your replies.

On 13/01/2013 wallwombat wrote:
>Use double 9.2 mm's, if you you are that worried and you think you are
>a fatty.
>
>Personally I wouldn't sweat on it.
>
>John Long had (and has) about 25 kg on you.
>
>You could probably hang your car off a modern double rope and the whole
>point is you have TWO ropes - if something goes snafu with one rope, you
>have a back up

I was planning on getting some mammut genesis (8.5) hence the concern.
strerror
13/01/2013
7:05:28 PM
On 13/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>At my peak I weighed just over 100kg (I now weigh under 90) and climbed
>on Edelweiss 9mm doubles. I've had some biggish falls on them and never
>really stressed too much.

twins or half? I'm not stressed about twins, but half's are a different story. Would you be comfortable with 8.5?


Miguel75
13/01/2013
8:00:58 PM
On 13/01/2013 strerror wrote:
>On 13/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>>At my peak I weighed just over 100kg (I now weigh under 90) and climbed
>>on Edelweiss 9mm doubles. I've had some biggish falls on them and never
>>really stressed too much.
>
>twins or half? I'm not stressed about twins, but half's are a different
>story. Would you be comfortable with 8.5?

Half ropes = double ropes

When my ropes are ready for a kids swing I'm looking for another set of doubles. Which ones I'm not sure but my mate in the US raves about his Mammuts...

EDIT. I sometimes climb on a 9.4 single so I don't reckon 8.5 half ropes would be too bad...
egosan
13/01/2013
9:02:58 PM
Keep in mind, sterror, The rope is elastic. In a static rope there is a relationship between rope diameter and breaking strain. This is just not the case as long as the rope is stretching. I am about 80kg. My evil polish twin Phillip is probably 90. (The tubby bitch.) We have both taken very large FF 1 falls on my scary little 7.8 doubles. They work.
One Day Hero
13/01/2013
10:05:55 PM
......says the bloke with two broken ankles!

Miguel75
13/01/2013
11:21:02 PM
I agree with Egosan's observations;

Phillip is tubby:)
egosan
14/01/2013
6:07:03 AM
No rope could have saved me from my hubris, ODH.

Duh. Stop by and say, hi, next time you are in Melbourne, Dickhead:)

phillipivan
14/01/2013
2:21:38 PM
On the contrary ANY rope could save you from yourself. Tie in with a noose.
Wendy
14/01/2013
2:25:03 PM
Someone will probably tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think rated modern climbing ropes just break from a straightforward fall, skinny or otherwise. They break because they run over something sharp enough to cut them or because they are old and trashed (which I've only heard of happening under testing, not in use) or had shit like battery acid spilt on them. If you're rope is trashed or otherwise damaged, to the point of breaking under say less than 4kn load, little me could break it as well as any fat bastard. Well, if I was likely to take those sort of falls, I could. If it runs over a sharp rock or worn carabiner edge, same. I'd be more worried about the greater ease of cutting a skinny rope if anything, and at least with 2 of them, you've probably got a back up if it happens. I think it's more important to manage your rope well than stress about its rating as a nice new rope. Watch where it runs and if you take a massive lob on it (my ex went 35m of factor 1 + onto a single 9 once. He retired the rope), you might want to reconsider using it. (like Sol might want to reconsider his if they had 2 such falls on them!).

Or just get a mammut serentity. For an extra 0.3 mm on the galaxy (and these are bloody small measurements we are talking about here! Just picture 0.3mm for a second), you get a rope rated for single use that's smaller than many doubles. Or a Beal Joker at 9.1. Lots of brands have skinny singles these days. i climb on 7.8mm doubles and a single 9.1. They are quite popular now and I haven't heard of anyone snapping them.

Eduardo Slabofvic
14/01/2013
2:51:08 PM
On 14/01/2013 egosan wrote:
>No rope could have saved me from my hubris, ODH.

Try using a sock
strerror
15/01/2013
12:07:59 PM
On 13/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>>twins or half? I'm not stressed about twins, but half's are a different
>>story. Would you be comfortable with 8.5?
>
>Half ropes = double ropes

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1533605#1533605

>EDIT. I sometimes climb on a 9.4 single so I don't reckon 8.5 half ropes
>would be too bad...

thanks for the replies!
martym
15/01/2013
12:55:52 PM
I've had my Mammut Genesis ropes for 4 years, travelled the world, they're about 8.5mm - love em.
I've never had a massive superfall, just lots of small drops and mini lead falls when trying a hold or something. They've seen a lot of sun and rain, so I'm starting to think I should replace them... but the sheaf is fully intact, and there's no flatspots etc. So I'm not rushing off to buy a new set - when I do, Mammut are great.
martym
15/01/2013
1:05:07 PM
Interesting - the mammut website says:
"But here you have the choice between twin rope technique, where both ropes run parallel through the protection and half rope technique, where the «left» and «right» ropes run separately through different protection points. "
I always thought twinroping doubles was a no-no? I'm sure it's been discussed a dozen times here & other websites... but that's their official line!?

Also been discussed a thousand times before, but I've never quite grasped is why only 55kg??
"Half ropes are tested singly with a 55 kg mass and must withstand five standard falls. "
M9 to the rescue with a link...?


climbau
15/01/2013
1:31:37 PM
The EN 892 Standard definition used to be (in 1996):
Half Rope - Dynamic mountaineering rope, which is capable, when used in pairs, as alink in the safety chain to arrest a person's fall.
Twin Rope - Dynamic mountaineering rope, which is capable, when used in pairs and parallel, to arrest a person's fall.

I think the 55kg test load is the nominated load to achieve 10% elongation in Half ropes and 8kN impact force in Half ropes as opposed to the 8% elongation in Singles and Twins and 12kN impact force in Singles and Twins. But a physics type person may be able to answer that better.
pecheur
15/01/2013
1:34:19 PM
On 15/01/2013 martym wrote:
>Interesting - the mammut
>website says:
>"But here you have the choice between twin rope technique, where both
>ropes run parallel through the protection and half rope technique, where
>the «left» and «right» ropes run separately through different protection
>points.
"
>I always thought twinroping doubles was a no-no? I'm sure it's been discussed
>a dozen times here & other websites... but that's their official line!?
>
A lot of modern doubles are rated as twins as well (does not apply vice versa).

>Also been discussed a thousand times before, but I've never quite grasped
>is why only 55kg??
>"Half ropes are tested singly with a 55 kg mass and must withstand
>five standard falls. "
>M9 to the rescue with a link...?
>
Because it was to test a "worst" case scenario i.e. a near factor 2 on a single strand. They could do a single 80 kg test however they worked out that a single test gives too high an error banding so they reduced the load and increased the number of tests. They correlated that anything that passed five 55 kg tests would pass one 80 kg test.
strerror
15/01/2013
2:24:23 PM
On 15/01/2013 martym wrote:
>t twinroping doubles was a no-no? I'm sure it's been discussed
>a dozen times here & other websites... but that's their official line!?

I've been reading up on all this but the original link I posted actually contains the answers. In short, if you're using a half rope system, you CAN double clip, but it will typically place up to an additional ~40% of force on the piece of protection that you double clip into. Thus you might consider it for a well placed bolt, but wouldn't for a sketchy piece of trad.

>Also been discussed a thousand times before, but I've never quite grasped
>is why only 55kg??
>"Half ropes are tested singly with a 55 kg mass and must withstand
>five standard falls. "
>M9 to the rescue with a link...?

Again my original link has the answer. In short the maths show that 5 x 55kg falls is the same as 1 x 80kg in this regard.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
There are 22 messages in this topic.

 

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