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Werribee gorge fixed pro topic breakdown

El Jefe

29-Jun-2012
3:46:41 PM

Given I'm not able to read the WG fixed pro thread, can anyone give me the gist of it what's happening?


nmonteith

29-Jun-2012
3:56:27 PM

If anyone wants to join in send me an email with their real name. nmonteith [at] yahoo dot com


Garrath

29-Jun-2012
3:57:19 PM

Managing risks due to the amount of climbers, individually or in groups that use the area. Discussion is mainly centred around the use of lower offs oh and an immature contribution from ODH


Eduardo Slabofvic

29-Jun-2012
3:59:36 PM

On 29/06/2012 El Jefe wrote:
>Given I'm not able to read the WG fixed pro thread, can anyone give me
>the gist of it what's happening?

Some people who want to bolt things are talking about bolting things; and some people who don't want things bolted are talking about not bolting things.

Personally, I can't wait until we start discussing blue tarps again

Access T CliffCare

29-Jun-2012
4:07:03 PM

On 29/06/2012 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
>On 29/06/2012 El Jefe wrote:
>>Given I'm not able to read the WG fixed pro thread, can anyone give me
>>the gist of it what's happening?
>
>Some people who want to bolt things are talking about bolting things;
>and some people who don't want things bolted are talking about not bolting
>things.
>
>Personally, I can't wait until we start discussing blue tarps again
Blue tarps, blue tarps?? Tell me more..

Access T CliffCare

29-Jun-2012
4:11:30 PM

Thanks Garrath - a nice succinct explanation.
There will be discussion in the main arena about Werribee Gorge and some possible solutions to various issues eventually. I'm just trying to get some focused feedback at the moment on some more specific components.

Cheers,
Tracey

dalai

29-Jun-2012
4:14:26 PM

On 29/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>If anyone wants to join in send me an email with their real name. nmonteith
>[at] yahoo dot com

Even a user with just one post?

One Day Hero

29-Jun-2012
4:18:23 PM

Basically a minor struggle over a worthless crag, between the faction which would like to retain some notion of diversity of styles (and the potential for crappy urban crags to be training areas for proper climbing), Vs. those who wish to apply "model A" to every piece of rock in the country, and are probably making unsubstantiated claims of increased safety to 'the authorities' in order to further their program of dumbifying cliffs.

El Jefe

29-Jun-2012
4:19:47 PM

Thanks for the breakdown Garrath.


Garrath

29-Jun-2012
4:28:13 PM

Once again ODH fails to constructively contribute to the conversation. What a clever boy you are!

One Day Hero

29-Jun-2012
4:36:52 PM

How is my summary any less constructive than yours, garrath?


nmonteith

29-Jun-2012
4:50:27 PM

On 29/06/2012 dalai wrote:
>On 29/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>>If anyone wants to join in send me an email with their real name. nmonteith
>>[at] yahoo dot com
>
>Even a user with just one post?

Of course.


Garrath

29-Jun-2012
4:54:01 PM

hmm. I don't see how a comment on the age old climbing argument of keeping everything in the 1970's helps deal with the real world reality of climbing in 2012. Especially climbing on a 'worthless' crag with serious erosion issues due to high usage.

I think you will find that the dollars used at Werribee would rather be used else where.

Tell me damien what should we do?

kieranl

29-Jun-2012
4:58:53 PM

On 29/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Basically a minor struggle over a worthless crag, between the faction which
>would like to retain some notion of diversity of styles (and the potential
>for crappy urban crags to be training areas for proper climbing
Relevant to the notion of crappy urban crags as training areas for "proper" climbing is the Lal Lal Falls accident.
On 28th March 1990 a group of 15 students were top-roping at Lal Lal falls under teacher supervision. One student while climbing dislodged large rocks that hit and killed a student on an adjacent climb and another on the ground. Several other students were injured.
This incident and the following coronial inquiry had a large bearing on the formation of the Climbing Instructor's Association shortly after and, in conjunction with other incidents, the Arapiles Rescue Group a couple of years later.
Access to Lal Lal Falls has been closed to the public ever since.
Werribee is quite different geology to Lal Lal but it is similar in that it is quite loose. Anyone instructing or taking groups there should be aware of the Lal Lal incident, it might just make you be a bit more careful how you do things.

One Day Hero

29-Jun-2012
5:30:07 PM

On 29/06/2012 Garrath wrote:
>hmm. I don't see how a comment on the age old climbing argument of keeping
>everything in the 1970's helps deal with the real world reality of climbing
>in 2012.

What is the "real world reality of climbing in 2012"?
>
>I think you will find that the dollars used at Werribee would rather be
>used else where.

You mean that this one isn't worth arguing about? I kind of agree, however, I suspect that the dumbest climbers at araps probably show up via an apprenticeship at Werribee..............and the dumber they get, the louder they'll call for loweroffs on every route at araps..........which will be music to Kieran's ears.
>
>Tell me damien what should we do?
>
Go on a climbing holiday to the Dolomites. Seriously, that's what you should do, it's amazing. You'll need to be very proficient at; moving over loose rock without dislodging anything, assessing old fixed pro, quickly rigging safe belays in mank, routefinding, climbing 400-800m of steep rock in less than 8hrs (must get down before arvo storms)...........and you're going to need to harden up a little, it's a wee bit dangerous over there.

How are you going to prepare for that trip? I would suggest that current-state Werribee may offer some training opportunity, but proposed-state Werribee will be less suited to the task.

If you do ever go on a proper climbing trip to a place like the Doli's, upon your return you'll find that Werribee seems rather safe and tame.

El Jefe

29-Jun-2012
6:47:25 PM

If the discussion is about installing lower offs I reckon I'll toss my lot in with ODH as I can't really think of why they're needed! Yes there's loose rock and that's why you should rock a helmet. Yes there are too many paths all along the cliff top from Hannibal to SPQR but does that necessitate lower offs?

Which climbs will likely recieve said hardware?


rodw

29-Jun-2012
6:48:55 PM

On 29/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Go on a climbing holiday to the Dolomites.

Lol only you ODH could use the Dolomites example in an argument about Werribee..as usual you waffle a lot, name drop about a lot of places and get boring very quickly.

El Jefe

29-Jun-2012
8:00:54 PM

On 29/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>Access to Lal Lal Falls has been closed to the public ever since.
>Werribee is quite different geology to Lal Lal but it is similar in that
>it is quite loose. Anyone instructing or taking groups there should be
>aware of the Lal Lal incident, it might just make you be a bit more careful
>how you do things.

If you're taking a school group/abseiling posse out for a day on rock why wouldn't you take them to Staughton Vale? No loose rocks on top and some nice solid anchors????

And yes, extra question marks make my question more interrogative....

One Day Hero

29-Jun-2012
8:51:05 PM

On 29/06/2012 rodw wrote:

>Lol only you ODH could use the Dolomites example in an argument about
>Werribee..as usual you waffle a lot

Sorry, I should have said "If you ever aspire to head north to NSW and attempt some of rodw's routes you will need to learn a lot about climbing on utter choss held together with ringbolts"


nmonteith

29-Jun-2012
9:05:07 PM

On 29/06/2012 El Jefe wrote:
>If the discussion is about installing lower offs I reckon I'll toss my
>lot in with ODH as I can't really think of why they're needed! Yes there's
>loose rock and that's why you should rock a helmet. Yes there are too many
>paths all along the cliff top from Hannibal to SPQR but does that necessitate
>lower offs?
>
>Which climbs will likely recieve said hardware?

If you want to get involved with the real discussion just shoot me an email. The Safer Cliffs forum is where (mostly) sensible people can discuss stuff without slanging matches and anonymous trolls. It's not pro bolting to any degree. There are hundreds of members, including many of the most active climbers in Australia past and present.

There are 28 messages in this topic.