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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Cultural heritage and climbing

access t

15/06/2012
3:43:43 PM

Hi All,

I am hoping that this thread will be one good way of helping to bring information about cultural heritage to the climbing masses and what it means to us, how it affects us and how we can be involved in the future of climbing co-existing responsibily with the cultural heritage sites that are out there and in the areas we climb at.
As I noted in the Excavation at Animal Acts thread, a discussion was prompted last year at the Bundaleer/Rosea inspection by Dave Roberts, Ranger in charge at Halls Gap. This was re climbing and more specifically, bouldering in the Grampians, and more specifically, in the Victoria Range. They are aware of the new development that Vic Range has been undergoing for a while and would like to work with climbers for the best outcome for all. Kieran Loughran was at this discussion and he put a post up on Chockstone after to get the ball rolling. I have cut and pasted the original post so there is some continuity here and also the link to the thread. I haven't had any feedback so far so this is refreshing it for all to see. I will send this thread link to a few people I know of more heavily into the bouldering scene. Anybody got Dave and Nalle contact details :) Only kidding.

(snip) from the Bouldering in the Grampians thread http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=106288&Replies=0
On 9/12/2011 kieranl wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I was with a group of climbers meeting with the Grampians ranger- in-charge Dave Roberts. The main part of the day was checking out access options for Bundaleer and Rosea but the talk got around to bouldering at one point. The upshot was that I was asked to try to identify some possible contact points between Parks and boulderers.
Now i don’t boulder much anymore and know virtually no one in the bouldering community (whatever that means) and feel a bit of a fraud doing this. So, this post is a feeler to see if people have any suggestions as to approach. There don’t seem to be any active bouldering sites any more to act as forums for this.

The discussions we had were very informal, conducted in a 4WD, with no notes being taken so what follows is my interpretation of things, hopefully very similar to what Dave intended.
Dave is very interested in the explosion of bouldering in the Grampians, both excited to see the interest being shown and concerned at future directions.
The concentration of intense bouldering activity on the Stapylton area is seen as desirable. The only active concern here is with large groups effectively “taking over” an area. This can be intimidating to other park users.
Parks would be concerned if intensive bouldering activity moved into the remote areas of the Grampians, particularly in the Victoria Range. There are a few aspects to this :

Track creation to bouldering areas, particularly on top of the range. There can be a lot of impact if an area becomes popular. Parks is wanting to preserve an element of remoteness here.

Impact on cultural sites. The Vic Range has the largest number of indigenous cultural sites in the Grampians and these may well be in prime bouldering territory. The thing is that these sites are all there is. Once one is damaged there will not be a replacement. There are actually two aspects here : the first, and the imperative one, is to prevent damage. At present Parks have no idea whether bouldering is taking place in sensitive areas. The second is that boulderers could actively help the cultural program by identifying previously unknown sites . I suggested that it might be useful to have some educational sessions with boulderers to help them to identify indigenous sites, suggest suitable behaviour around them and to identify areas which are generally culturally sensitive where bouldering should be avoided or undertaken only with great respect.

Bouldering in areas that will be subject to the Parks burning program. There is going to be a fair amount of prescribed burning in the Vic range next year and there is concern that boulderers might be in areas that are being burned.

This all looks like a case for dialogue. It should be pointed out that it’s not an attack on boulderers; there are similar concerns about the impact of other Park users.
So, where to from here? Anyone who has any ideas or who wants to volunteer can post here or email me kieranl (at) aanet.com.au or pass them on to Tracey at Cliffcare http://cliffcare.org.au
(snip)

So there's a start for dialogue.Comment here or as noted, you can send an email to me at cliffcare@vicclimb.org.au.

cheers,
Tracey

widewetandslippery

15/06/2012
4:01:57 PM

in the above re parks there are a lot of coulds as opposed to ares.

Also a good brushed chalky hold is my culture, not some 400yr old rubbish pile.

muki

15/06/2012
10:09:09 PM

I found a very old and very rare Turinga, its seldom used in common aboriginal artwork more gudiachi stuff really, what made this one so special was that it had been carved into the rock ! not painted, high above the rock shelter, with a huge view of the Grampians.

grangrump

23/06/2012
11:31:36 PM

A few groups of climbers at Gibraltar Peak (ACT) have recently been asked not to climb on the Nailbiter Spike by the ranger. Apparently this is related to some Aboriginal link which was not detailed.
I also hear that some of the bouldering along the Corin Dam Rd nearby was similarly affected?
But nothing seems to be made public.

allnewmaterial

24/06/2012
12:06:13 PM

On 23/06/2012 grangrump wrote:
>A few groups of climbers at Gibraltar Peak (ACT) have recently been asked
>not to climb on the Nailbiter Spike by the ranger. Apparently this is related
>to some Aboriginal link which was not detailed.
>I also hear that some of the bouldering along the Corin Dam Rd nearby
>was similarly affected?
>But nothing seems to be made public.

Has anyone more information on this?
Besides the fact that the rock has no more cultural importance to Aboriginals as it does to climbers.
Would it perhaps be due to the fact that those two extra anchors were recently added to the top of Skylark?

ratherbeclimbinV9

24/06/2012
3:22:19 PM

CCA investigated this and it is not the official line from Parks. You can continue to climb at Gibraltar freely.

widewetandslippery

24/06/2012
3:38:32 PM

good news. "Cultral respect" is as ludicrios as belonging to a cult like hillsong

ARidgley

24/06/2012
4:03:33 PM

On 24/06/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>good news. "Cultral respect" is as ludicrios as belonging to a cult like
>hillsong

Have you considered that comments such as this on a public forum may do your cause more harm than good?

alpinejoy

25/06/2012
7:11:20 AM

Everyone says cultural sensibilities for rock are bullshit, but whenever I try to bolt some pile of choss like watchtower crack or kachoong so I can practice my dry tooling I get yelled at! They are just rocks people!

ithomas

25/06/2012
1:03:23 PM

Sometimes people on this forum are witty, sometimes thought provoking and sometimes quite dull. A couple of the responses to this thread are simply repulsive. If the responses were in jest, the time for racist jests is over. If the responses were trolls, the trolls were juvenile and small minded. I think the site moderators have a responsibility to erase such posts. I dare widewetandslippery and others to visit the Brambuk Cultural Centre and state their views, as written, to any of the Jardwadjali represenatives.
Ian

Edward Oslabofvic

25/06/2012
4:10:13 PM

On 15/06/2012 access t wrote:
>boulderers might be in areas that are
>being burned.
>

Is this what is commonly referred to as a "win win scenario"?

Reluctant

25/06/2012
7:31:18 PM

It's all about respect. A lost ideal. I don't walk into someone's house with shoes on if that's not there thing. Nor would I walk on walls in an art gallery. Monet's do not improve with footprints. So if asked to respect "art" areas I find it easy to oblige. But then I'm getting old and no longer have a point to prove by "sticking it to the man".
When visiting family in Thailand I was taken to a monastery in the hills. Only 300 years old. They let us climb the hill in which the monastery is carved. But they did look down on me when I yelled when I missed a move. The Buddhist monks believe "avoid loud and aggressive people as they are vexing to the spirit". Point of the story - bit of respect goes a long way, but no one likes an intolerant asehole.
I like showing my kids cultural art at chimney pots that is not behind steel bar gates. Let's keep that for future generations.
We can act as custodians or vandals. Hard to take pride in being a vandal.

access t

7/09/2012
12:41:43 PM

Hi All,

I have uploaded some flyers to the Indigenous Cultural Heritage section on the CliffCare website describing the various indigenous cultural heritage sites and artifacts you may come across when climbing or developing new areas. Please give them a read through and be better informed on what to keep an eye out for and please be respectful of this history when deciding whether or not to develop an area. http://cliffcare.org.au/about/education/indigenous-cultural-heritage/

I would really like to create some educational documents for climbers around indig.cultural heritage so if there is anyone out there who feels this may fall into their skill set and has a little time to commit to it, please drop me a line. Would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers,
Tracey

There are 13 messages in this topic.