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insure 4 less grade < 28 policy

wilbur

19-Apr-2012
12:18:42 PM

Insure4less's words:

Hi
Thanks for completing the climbing application however, our plans cover up to Grade 28 Australian. If you wish to climb above that grade please provide details of your previous climbs/locations etc at those grades and we’ll refer to the Underwriter.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards
The insure4less Team

My reply:

Thanks for your response.

I have been climbing for 15 years: in Australia, France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Slovenia.
I regularly warm up (ie start my day's climbing) at Diamond Falls Australia by climbing Hairline (28). Deeming routes above Grade 28 as being more risky than those below demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of sport climbing. I am happy to provide you with a list of routes I have climbed above this number but I'm curious as to what your Underwriter proposes to do with that list.

As a representative sample:
Grade 32: Attack Mode (Nowra, Australia), Mr Line (Diamond Falls, Australia)
Grade 31: Lord of the Rings (Arapiles, Australia), Dungeon Master (Nowra, Australia)
Grade 30: Face de Rat (Ceuse, France), Temptation (Blue Mountains, Australia)
Grade 29: Slimline (Frankenjura, Germany), Tsunami (Blue Mountains, Australia), Serpentine (Grampians, Australia), A'crabita (Rodellar, Spain)

I look forward to hearing what risk assessment your Underwriter makes of this.

Thanks in advance.


cruze

19-Apr-2012
1:19:23 PM

Sounds like you are seeking sponsorship from the insurance company.

latch

19-Apr-2012
1:23:46 PM

I got the same email when I applied..

Wonder what they will come back with, surely they have to look at this policy and correct it one of these days!


rodw

19-Apr-2012
1:49:48 PM

Considering most hard routes 28+ are probably the most safely bolted stuff out there its a weird one...they would be better saying we will cover all climbing but any route with 23 and Law in the routes description done before 2000 will not be covered....one because it will be woefully under graded..and two, the hand made hangers on it are probably not trustworthy.

ademmert

19-Apr-2012
3:14:36 PM

Really curious to hear what they come back with. not that i warm up on 28 but i would like the option to dog my way up harder routes and know I'm still insured


phil_nev

19-Apr-2012
3:35:23 PM

Yep I got the same response. Replied with a not too dissimilar email and was told politely that if I didn't like their policy I could go elsewhere.
Just make sure there is a 7c+ next to your 8b project and youll be right ;)

jono_1

19-Apr-2012
5:04:33 PM

With a reply like that the insurer probably will not both replying. From my experience, when dealing with banks for loans and insurers for unusual insurance requests (i.e. climing insurance) you need to be very nice to them.

Wendy

19-Apr-2012
5:27:53 PM

Just go with AAC UK. Support a climbing association. Get climbing coverage without stupid provisos.


Andrew_M

19-Apr-2012
5:45:45 PM

On 19/04/2012 Wendy wrote:
>Just go with AAC UK. Support a climbing association. Get climbing coverage
>without stupid provisos.

Though, as discussed ad infinitum in a previous thread, AAC insurance is useless if you aren't a European resident (or somesuch).

Wendy

19-Apr-2012
6:03:53 PM

Bollocks, they accept residents of all english speaking countries and will repatriate you to your home country. As many trips of 6 weeks duration out of your home country as you can take in a year. You can pay for extra days on that. As I have also pointed out, ad infinitum.

wilbur

19-Apr-2012
7:36:33 PM

The response from insure 4 less was fairly uneventful (and inconclusive):

Thank you for the additional information. We will need to refer any climbs over grade 28 to the Underwriters – we normally receive a response within 2-3 business days and will email as soon as we have confirmation.

In the meantime however, we are pleased to confirm that we can offer you our Standard Rock Climbing Plan up to Grade 28 for an additional premium of $115.50 (on top of the normal insure4less travel insurance premium). Cover is as per the attached specimen endorsement. Please check to see this plan is appropriate for your proposed climbs.

No mention of the grade 28 limit in the terms and conditions though:

It is a condition precedent to any liability hereunder that:
1. All climbs are to use pre-placed permanently fixed protection, or top rope protection in accordance with ACA best practice.
2. All climbs are to be on previously graded and approved routes* only.
3. All climbs are to be conducted at heights not exceeding 3,500m above sea level.
4. Bouldering to be conducted at heights not exceeding 4.5m.
5. Treks to be conducted at heights not exceeding 6000m above sea level.
6. You must wear suitable protective equipment including a climbing helmet at all times when climbing or at the rock face.
This insurance will not cover you for:
1. Any ice, glacier, freesolo or solo, alpine or traditional climbing, or any climbing / trekking involving multi stage ascents, professional guides or porters without the prior specific approval of Underwriters.
2. Any climbing above 3,500m above sea level.
3. Any exploration of new routes.
4. Any bouldering without the use of crash pads.
5. Any costs incurred during the search for, or recovery of, your body when the location of your body is not known, or when approval for the search or recovery has not been given by Underwriters and/or their representatives.
6. Any gradual deterioration, wear and tear, damage to equipment whilst climbing or the voluntary or
enforced abandonment of equipment whilst climbing.
7. The first $500 of each and every claim under section 2 Medical expenses in respect of claims arising from activities covered by this endorsement.
8. Any claim if you have not purchased a standard insure4less travel insurance policy from the date that you leave your home in Australia to the date that you arrive back in your home in Australia.


Doug

19-Apr-2012
8:04:32 PM

On 19/04/2012 wilbur wrote:
>The response from insure 4 less was fairly uneventful (and inconclusive):
>

>1. All climbs are to use pre-placed permanently fixed protection, or top
>rope protection in accordance with ACA best practice.

>6. You must wear suitable protective equipment including a climbing helmet
>at all times when climbing or at the rock face.
>This insurance will not cover you for:
>1. Any ice, glacier, freesolo or solo, alpine or traditional climbing,
>or any climbing / trekking involving multi stage ascents, professional
>guides or porters without the prior specific approval of Underwriters.

Hmmm. Uneventful? It looks like - as I'd already concluded - insure4less is a total waste of time. As I read it, they're saying they will only insure you for sport climbing with a helmet. You can't even hire a guide to do a multi-pitch route unless you clear it with them first. I reckon "uneventful" would mean that you don't insure with insure4less! ;-)

One Day Hero

19-Apr-2012
8:09:01 PM

Wow, you have to wear a helmet on belay. No natural gear or dodgy bolts either..................hmm, I wonder if they'd pay up for a bolt failure acco, or did your decision to clip a bolt which wasn't tagged and tested void the policy?

Wendy

19-Apr-2012
8:09:38 PM

What a useless climbing policy! Fully equipped sport or top roping only, no new routes, no alpine, nothing over 3500m, no glacier travel, no multipitching ....

Hope everyone read the fine print when they used that - no trips to Cham, the valley, Squamish, most of the climbing in Britain, anything not single pitch in any of the famous sport destinations ....

Of course, you can fall from 4.49m onto a crash pad and completely fûck yourself over and you'll be fine. Unless you weren't wearing your helmet. Which you probably weren't, because bugger all boulderers do, so again, you're stuffed.


nmonteith

19-Apr-2012
8:12:02 PM

If you want to trad climb or go to altitude it just costs more. This is the basic sport climbing policy conditions. I went to Peru high altitude mountaineering last year and also climbed trad and sport at over 4500m and they covered all of it - for a cost. I think it was twice the cost of the normal sport insurance from memory.

One Day Hero

19-Apr-2012
8:14:18 PM

On 19/04/2012 Wendy wrote:

>no new routes

Yeah, that sucks. Cause what I really like best about overseas climbing holidays is spending time bolting and trundling some grungy non-line in an exotic location.

Wendy

19-Apr-2012
8:17:58 PM

yeah, well, we both know some people get off on that sort of thing!


Andrew_M

20-Apr-2012
9:34:39 AM

On 19/04/2012 Wendy wrote:
>Bollocks, they accept residents of all english speaking countries and will
>repatriate you to your home country. As many trips of 6 weeks duration
>out of your home country as you can take in a year. You can pay for extra
>days on that. As I have also pointed out, ad infinitum.

OK Wendy, technically they do cover you, but as discussed before according the info leaflet it's still only for 7500 euro medical expenses in the country you're injured in. That's close worthless in most places around the world (e.g. the US) if the sh!t hits the fan, which is the only time you really want it.

Feel free to join enjoy the AAC for the warm and fuzzy feeling alone - I work with Austrians and they are crayzee people - one of them even smiled once.

Mike Bee

20-Apr-2012
10:17:00 AM

On 20/04/2012 Andrew_M wrote:
>OK Wendy, technically they do cover you, but as discussed before according
>the info leaflet it's still only for 7500 euro medical expenses in the
>country you're injured in. That's close worthless in most places around
>the world (e.g. the US) if the sh!t hits the fan, which is the only time
>you really want it.

That'd be worthless in Australia, even. It's about $10k a day for an ICU bed over here, and if you're injured enough you need one of them, you'll be there for longer than a day.
Imagine the cost of ICU in the USA!


nmonteith

20-Apr-2012
10:23:50 AM

7500 Euro! That wouldn't even pay for the air ambulance bill in most countries (inc Australia).

There are 53 messages in this topic.