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Traveling and climbing in Victoria

yevquest

16-Mar-2012
12:29:08 AM

Hi All,

I'm in the planning stages of a climbing trip, trying to decide between Australia and China. The Moon Hill Arch looks amazing but I've always wanted to climb on the Taipan wall (and China will be hot during my vacation). So currently I'm leaning toward Australia but I wanted to get some information from the locals so I've come here. I'd be coming from the States at the beginning of May, traveling solo for the first month.

My questions: Is it difficult to find partners to climb with during this season (May) at the Grampians or Arapiles? Specifically, I'm interested in the Taipan Wall but I'd like to sample different areas.

What sort of weather should I expect? I looked at http://www.grampiansvictoria.com.au/grampians-weather at saw for May the average max and min are 16.4 and 5.7 which seems ok if a little warm. Does this sound about right? How about rain?

On a related note, what about the same questions for the Blue Mountains (I know it's NSW and not Victoria) but it looks fairly stunning. I guess there I'd be keen to sport climb on routes around 23-30.

Cheers!


benjenga

16-Mar-2012
6:53:35 AM

Well it's been raining a whole lot in the last 6momths but it's starting to dry out. May should be good for most places. Taipan is an incredible wall, you will love it.
I live in the blue mountains so if you make it up here and by sure you should, I can show you around and hook you up with some partners.


nmonteith

16-Mar-2012
8:36:41 AM

On 16/03/2012 yevquest wrote:
>My questions: Is it difficult to find partners to climb with during this
>season (May) at the Grampians or Arapiles? Specifically, I'm interested
>in the Taipan Wall but I'd like to sample different areas.

Firstly in my opinion there is a big difference between a China trip and an Australian trip. China is mad, noisy, busy and humid. You stay in hotels in a small city. The climbing is next to farms and mass tourism sites with lines of buses. It's a great cultural experience but not a wilderness holiday! Australia on the other hand offers climbing in true wilderness areas - trees, hopping animals, clean water and quiet. Our cliffs are almost never busy, even Taipan Wall can be empty on a blue sky Saturday.

Best place for partner hookups is Arapiles as there is always lots of climbers (Camp 4 of Australia). It's only an hours drive from there's to Taipan Wall. The campground near Taipan Wall (Mt Stapylton ca,pground) isn't very busy outside of weekends but you might be lucky?There is usually a few international boulderers hanging out there - but in May they could be few and far between.

>What sort of weather should I expect? I looked at http://www.grampiansvictoria.com.au/gr
>mpians-weather at saw for May the average max and min are 16.4 and 5.7
>which seems ok if a little warm. Does this sound about right? How about
>rain?

16'c = warm??? Warm is 45'c which can happen in January! Generally May is cool and sometimes quite wet. It's the start of the Victorian wet season - the first snow in the high ranges falls in may, and can occasionally dust the Grampians. Bring a down jacket. The grades you climb mean that there is plenty of awesome steep cave routes that are water proof - look up Muline, millennium caves and the gallery for example.

>On a related note, what about the same questions for the Blue Mountains
>(I know it's NSW and not Victoria) but it looks fairly stunning. I guess
>there I'd be keen to sport climb on routes around 23-30.

May should be ok but it will be cold. The Bluies are at 1000m altitude so it's usually much colder then the sea level crags like Arapiles. The Bluies has amazing scenery and location but the climbing isn't anywhere near as good as Grampians or Arapiles. If you had to pick between the two - go to the Grampians. It is a 10 hour drive between the Blue Mountains and the Grampians.


nmonteith

16-Mar-2012
8:38:58 AM

I should say that in Australia it almost never drops below freezing. But we have high humidity so it can feel very cold even though it not below 0'c.


rodw

16-Mar-2012
9:32:54 AM

How long you coming for..looks like over a month so you could easily hit up both places...and other areas in between...also what mode of transport you going to have (if any)...as that could dictate were you should go too.


skegly

16-Mar-2012
8:40:52 PM

All of Australia you will get stunning experience's.There is allot of rock and it depends what your looking for.

yevquest

17-Mar-2012
1:54:22 AM

Thanks a lot for the responses, very helpful. To answer some questions:

I'm trying to do my research for a trip in May 2013 so I have plenty of time. I'm currently leaning toward Australia for a few reasons. Because of work, I'm pretty constrained to travel in May or June. The issues that I'm weighing are cultural experience (China), ease of travel (Australia), cost (wash?), limestone vs sandstone (China, I live in the south of the U.S. and climb on sandstone a lot), and the weather. I really dislike climbing in the heat and I think China will just be too hot. (10C is good route weather to me, sun or shade)

My plan would be to fly to Australia and rent a car for the month (big expense). While, I'd rather not spend the money to rent a car, I want the flexibility to so travel and see as much of the surrounding areas that I can on rest days. I'd climb for the month of May and then my wife would fly over and we'd do more of a tourist type vacation for a few weeks, some climbing, some not. We'd be based out of Sydney for at least some of that so maybe the Blueys would be best then.

Are there any other areas that are unique or worthy? We'll probably go north towards the Great Barrier Reef, anything up there to climb on or should we just enjoy the ocean?

Thanks again!


Eduardo Slabofvic

17-Mar-2012
6:09:31 PM

Go to northern China, besides, Yangshuo is past its prime. Access issues all over the place. It's time to move on and leave it to the climbing companies. Plenty of climbing near Kunmin and other places, both trad and sport. Finding partners may be problematic, as it seems as though Yangshuo is the only populist climbing location.

Traveling in China is relatively easy.

May should be pretty good in Aus, pretty much where ever you want to go.

singersmith

17-Mar-2012
6:33:44 PM

Dude,
Oz has gotten quite expensive in the past 5-10 years. If you live here you tend to not notice gradual increases but Aussies who have left and come back are stunned. Currently, you could find yourself getting as little as 90¢ on the dollar but that's a long ways out so it can't be predicted. If you're trying to churn up partners, in that season especially, you're almost certainly going to be Arapiles-based unless you pick up someone super eager early on.

Rocks: Arapiles is quartzite, not sandstone to which it is sometimes inexplicably referred and hasn't been for half a billion years; I point this out b/c rock type is on your criteria list and you're likely to log in time there. Most of the Grampians is bona fide sandstone, and some really good, but it is quite spread out and if you climb in the Red it's possible you're not missing out. The Taipan Wall is a totally cool feature but is very old (Ordovician) quartz-feldspathic sandstone and could even be partially metamorphosed as it is really hard. While much of the good stuff in the Gramps could be said to resemble parts of the Red, the Taipan doesn't at all and if you camp out on 5.12's and up you're likely to really enjoy it.

I don't think much of the surrounding area in the Wimmera is going to interest you on rest days unless you have a keen interest in canola farming.

The Great Barrier Reef is 1500 miles from Horsham; same as Kansas to the West Coast - factor that in.


Sonic

17-Mar-2012
6:57:29 PM

On 17/03/2012 yevquest wrote:
10C is good route weather to me, sun or shade

You'll only get those temps in the Bluies for June - July. Victoria is warmer due to the lower altitude, even in winter. So in May your looking at say, 16-20C temps. To us, those are awesome conditions! 10C is stay in front of the fire weather.

One Day Hero

17-Mar-2012
7:03:40 PM

Moon Hill is way better than Taipan. If you have sandstone at home, I'd recommend China.

Linze

20-Mar-2012
10:50:08 AM

On 17/03/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Moon Hill is way better than Taipan. If you have sandstone at home, I'd
>recommend China.

hope the op doesnt take this on board, you be robbed if you took moon hill over Victoria.
moon hill is funish, but the routes i did were kinda mild tempered pumpers compared to some of the full spice things that have destroyed me on taipan and at Araps.

if the op is still about, i was in Yang Shou 2 years ago and wouldnt go back. routes are fun but far less memorable than much of the stuff i have climbed in Victoria. i didnt really like the tourist focussed town much either. if i was hungry for limestone i would be heading to europe instead - though cant speak on the northern china recomendation that someone else made.


nmonteith

20-Mar-2012
11:26:56 AM

On 17/03/2012 yevquest wrote:
>Are there any other areas that are unique or worthy?

Frog Buttress - near Brisbane. Volcanic splitter crack climbing. Worth a few days of fun on your way through to the Barrier Reef. Perfect in May/June.

Point Perpendicular - 2 hours south of Sydney. Sandstone sea cliff climbing with ridiculous exposore. Trad, sport and mixed. You will see whales below you.

Bungonia Gorge - 3 hours from Sydney (towards Arapiles). 900ft limestone multipitch climbing. Mixed mostly. Harder grades - 5.11c+ mostly.

>We'll probably go
>north towards the Great Barrier Reef, anything up there to climb on or
>should we just enjoy the ocean?

If you enjoy climbing in 10'C then I suggest you don't try and climb near the Barrier Reef! It doesn't get below 25'C all year there. If you do get keen check out Mt Stuart in Townsville - volcanic face climbing. Mixed bolts and trad.


nmonteith

20-Mar-2012
11:56:13 AM

I reckon it would be about the same cost for the two places.

In Australia it's mostly easy to just buy all food from supermarkets and camp for free, or for under $10 a night at any of the major climbign areas. Your main costs will be car rental and fuel. Driving from Arapiles to the Barrier Reef is 3500km (via Sydney) - so that's going to be a BIG cost!

China - you stay in hotels and eat out every night. It's cheap compared to doing that back at home, but it does add up.

20-Mar-2012
12:15:25 PM

The thing that annoyed me about china is the fact that nobody mentioned that yangshuo itself is a massive hole. Its like living in a humid shopping centre. If you want to go and climb good limestone, simply go to europe.

Wendy

20-Mar-2012
12:31:30 PM

If you've climbed a lot at the Red, the sport climbing in the grampians may be a little disappointing. The gramps are gorgeous, there's fab trad climbing, but in terms of steep sandstone sport, the Red wins hands down. If you want atmospheric, varied, reasonably high for Australia, trad crags in a beautiful bush settings, cool australian wildlife, the gramps wins hand down. In terms of meeting people to climb with, living cheaply and getting heaps of quality trad climbing done on impeccable rock such as the Red could never imagine, Araps wins hand down. May is the far end of good climbing season here in my books, but given you seem to have a propensity for what i call freezing, you'll probably just think it's getting cool enough. It won't be 10 degrees, but mostly sub 20.

Car hire for a month in Australia would be exorbitant. And our petrol prices will horrify you. The cheap method to climb in Oz is to PT or hitch to Araps, car pool to the gramps with people or hire a car short term in Horsham for trips there. And a month is no time at all to see Australia. Don't bother about all those other crags being waved at you, if you want to come here short term, stayin at Araps and the Gramps for the month is by far the most efficient use of your time. To get to the GBR, fly. It will cost less than car hire and petrol. Get your partner to fly into Qld somewhere and meet you there. Almost everything on the Qld coast is touristy with touristy prices. Expect the budget to blow out.

I really liked Yangshuo. Mostly for the combination of culture/food/experience and the climbing. I wouldn't have like Yangshuo nearly as much if I had stayed in touristy hotels, eaten at tourist restaurants and caught taxis to the crag everyday. You can definitely dirtbag Yangshuo into way cheaper than any trip to Australia (short of hitching to Araps and staying there). No reason to pay more than $10 a night for accommodation or $2 for a meal or $1 for a beer. Local buses cost 50c and hiring a bike for a month, $12. Climbingwise, there was a variety of angles of limestone, mostly not too polished, rarely busy, and it's sort of scenic in a smoggy, populated kind of way. Mind you, you'll probably think it's way too warm and humid. Especially by June. You sound like you'd be happier going in February.


rodw

20-Mar-2012
1:13:53 PM

Re Car hire it could be expensive for 2 months...Ive seen a lot of wicked campers around which would make it easy to camp and save...

http://www.wickedcampers.com.au/

Australia has an abundance of free camp spots, and driving around is a much better way to experience Australia than just hoping on planes and heading to specific destinations....

http://ozcamps.net/

20-Mar-2012
1:24:04 PM

Dude....

If you can climb grade 30 the grampians will be awesome. One bed to the Left 27, Fisting Party 27, Monkey puzzle 28, Angular Perspective 28, Groovy 28, Serpentine 29, Nomads Saints and Indians 29, Eye of the Tiger 29, Path of Yin 30, Daniel Ortiger 30 & Breathing Gasoline 30 all mindblowing routes.

Don't listen to the haters, these routes will knock your socks off!!!

Wendy

20-Mar-2012
1:51:17 PM

have you been to the red, Kent? If that's his local, the Madness Cave alone puts all of those routes to shame. It's all a matter of context. The Red really does have 1000s of kilometres of cliff that are like bigger, better versions of Muline and the Gallery.


nmonteith

20-Mar-2012
2:20:25 PM

On 20/03/2012 Wendy wrote:
>have you been to the red, Kent? If that's his local, the Madness Cave
>alone puts all of those routes to shame. It's all a matter of context.
> The Red really does have 1000s of kilometres of cliff that are like bigger,
>better versions of Muline and the Gallery.

Errr - no it doesn't. The rock quality is totally different. The Red is all about repetitive pocket pulling pumpfests on steep gritty sandstone. Quite monotonous after a while. Also nothing is bigger than single pitch, and it's all below the tree line. The Grampians has amazing swirling smooth and surreal rock architecture - the hard routes have memorbale contorted and bizzare cruxes, sometimes with epic air under your feet. And you have them all to yourself 99% of the time. Unlike the Red were you have to queue for anything with 2 stars or more.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the Red. I had a great time, but I can't remember any details about particular climbs - they all felt very same same. On the other hand, so many of the moves on the classics in the Grampians are imprinted firmly in my mind. Quoting Mike Law "The Grampians has fantatsic climbs, the Blue Mountains has fantastic crags". Same comparison can be made between Gramps & the Red in my opinion. Grampians classics are some of the great routes of the world.

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