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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 44
Author
The Pines Campground at Araps - What's happening!

Camalittle
13/02/2012
12:28:35 PM
Having just come back from a weekend at Araps I was shocked at the amount of tree lopping that has gone on lately. There were at least 10 more Pines chopped down in the last week or two, both in The Pines and The Gums campgrounds. There also doesn't seem to be a tree replacement program happening, or at least one that is keeping pace with the culling. If this continues, soon we will simply have a hot wind swept wasteland to camp in.

Yes I know Pines are a weed and there is another whole argument about what type of trees are suitable; What we need are trees thet provide shade, don't drop limbs and cut down the wind - Pines are better than nothing!

Does anyone know if there is a clear plan from DSE or Parks for our beloved campground? Our are they just chopping and clearing without a plan?
Access T CliffCare
13/02/2012
12:43:39 PM
On 13/02/2012 Camalittle wrote:
>Having just come back from a weekend at Araps I was shocked at the amount
>of tree lopping that has gone on lately. There were at least 10 more Pines
>chopped down in the last week or two, both in The Pines and The Gums campgrounds.
>There also doesn't seem to be a tree replacement program happening, or
>at least one that is keeping pace with the culling. If this continues,
>soon we will simply have a hot wind swept wasteland to camp in.
>
>Yes I know Pines are a weed and there is another whole argument about
>what type of trees are suitable; What we need are trees thet provide shade,
>don't drop limbs and cut down the wind - Pines are better than nothing!
>
>Does anyone know if there is a clear plan from DSE or Parks for our beloved
>campground? Our are they just chopping and clearing without a plan?

Spoke to the ranger on Friday about this. Just the required maintenance of the pine trees. The ones chopped had got to the dangerous stage. And the redgums again, required maintenance - limbs have dropped more recently and with the heavy winds Araps has been experiencing a good chance more would.
It looks like a bomb site at the moment - this will be cleared in the next two weeks. I will then be coordinating a project for some native pine trees to be planed in the day visitor area. There are native pines that have already been planted in the campground. Thes do take a while to grow so we just have to be patient. The native pines have been an ongoing project for quite a few years with a local growing the indigenous pines and them finally being planted in 2008(I think?) A working bee was also organized last year to post and chicken wire the growing trees to protect them. So the plan has been in place for quite a while but as with all things nature (droughts and floods) and all things land manager, these are never instant and it is always going to take many years to see the result.

Cheers,

Tracey
ZERO
13/02/2012
12:52:51 PM
From what I have been told the felled trees had been assessed by an arborist and were deemed unhealthy and unsafe.
As for the replacement options, that is something where the climbing "community" will need to show a bit of motivation and input, maybe purchase some trees and guards etc.
White Gold
13/02/2012
2:34:19 PM
I don't see the point of growing these new native pines. Even once they have matured they aren't going to provide much shade in summer as they are small (3-6m when fully grown?) and not possible to camp under them. Which will only make the day camping area look more appealing to irregular guests during those hot summer days. You wont be able to tie things (tents, tarps, hammocks etc) to them as they seem a lot more flimsy. As much as the current pines may be weeds, they do a really good job. They are now even Iconic to araps, and seem to manage the conditions fine. If you are going to plant something it should be equivalent to what is already there :) or at least beneficial to the people using the area. During summer now shade is getting scarce and this is only going to get worse!

I wouldn't be doing any planting before Easter either.
One Day Hero
13/02/2012
3:37:25 PM
On 13/02/2012 access t wrote:

>Spoke to the ranger on Friday about this. Just the required maintenance
>of the pine trees.

"maintenance".......pffffff. Look, I'm not weighing in on whether it was neccessary to kill those trees or not, but c'mon, knocking down and chopping into little pieces is not "maintenance"!

> There are native pines
>that have already been planted in the campground. Thes do take a while
>to grow so we just have to be patient.

So, we can look forward to shady camping about.........2040? Having nothing but native plants is a noble goal, but perhaps just bunging in some foreign trees wot grow real quick might be good too? Can always do some 'maintenance' on them once the natives grow to a useful size.
Wendy
Online Now
13/02/2012
3:48:26 PM
It was some fairly spectacular "maintenance" ... esp given the absence of other maintenance that would be quite useful.

I agree the native pines thing doesn't seem like a great solution. But the reason there are native pines being planted is because people are strangely attached to the notion of The Pines. I think we should be planting yellow gums. Grow quickly, cast shade, are native. What's the problem?

And if you think the pines is becoming a shadeless dustbowl, go camp in the North campground, which has a bunch of trees planted in the late 90s that despite not being pine trees, do cast some shade.

And the latest "maintenance" won't be pushing people into camping in the day area in a hurry, as in fact a lot of the removed trees were in the day area.
GusR
13/02/2012
3:59:06 PM
On 13/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>So, we can look forward to shady camping about.........2040? Having nothing
>but native plants is a noble goal, but perhaps just bunging in some foreign
>trees wot grow real quick might be good too? Can always do some 'maintenance'
>on them once the natives grow to a useful size.

Ah ... ODH you crack me up. I don't care what anyone says - he's worth having around on this forum.
kieranl
13/02/2012
4:10:31 PM
On 13/02/2012 White Gold wrote:
>I don't see the point of growing these new native pines. Even once they
>have matured they aren't going to provide much shade in summer as they
>are small (3-6m when fully grown?) and not possible to camp under them.
>Which will only make the day camping area look more appealing to irregular
>guests during those hot summer days. You wont be able to tie things (tents,
>tarps, hammocks etc) to them as they seem a lot more flimsy. As much as
>the current pines may be weeds, they do a really good job. They are now
>even Iconic to araps, and seem to manage the conditions fine. If you are
>going to plant something it should be equivalent to what is already there
>:) or at least beneficial to the people using the area. During summer now
>shade is getting scarce and this is only going to get worse!
>
>I wouldn't be doing any planting before Easter either.
Well, when are you going to be doing some planting? Or do you just like to have a good whinge?

salty crag
13/02/2012
5:54:10 PM
A long term plan would be good. Incorporate some of the above suggestions such as plant faster growing species to provide shelter/shade and remove them once slower growing tree/shrubs have matured. There are a whole range of natives that could be included that while they are not indigenous to that particular area are non invasive and can be used as stop gaps.
DS&E staff turn over and without a long term direction we are at the whim of whoever is in control at any particular time. As a user of the pines I would be a lot happier to see a plan in place that helped explain some of the changes that occur rather than be freaked out by some of the stuff thats happened wondering where its leading. A plan would also help with future working bee's and plantings and I would be happy to commit time and money to assist.
White Gold
13/02/2012
5:56:18 PM
On 13/02/2012 kieranl wrote:
>Well, when are you going to be doing some planting? Or do you just like
>to have a good whinge?

Kier anl settle down! :) I'm more than happy to help out whenever I'm around. I have helped put stakes and chicken wire up previously, even carried rocks :(. I also pay for my camping...unlike a lot of others. I'm all for preserving this area for the future. Just thinking practically and giving my 2cents...I know it can be a crime on chockstone. I'm all for constructive criticism and sometimes I forget others take it personally! But why? Who says that everything you do must be perfect on the first try?

Again have you seen those small native pines. They're going to be useless for shade, and I think money could be better spent on plants that will be practical for what the area is used for.

Pat
13/02/2012
6:43:04 PM
If they are the same Cypress species as the ones at the base of Lower Curtain Wall then I think they are an OK replacement. That has to one of the nicest groves of trees on the mountain. Agree with Wendy, why not other local species? A good mixture would be fine with me -
kieranl
13/02/2012
7:53:54 PM
On 13/02/2012 White Gold wrote:
>Kier anl settle down! :) I'm more than happy to help out whenever I'm
>around. I have helped put stakes and chicken wire up previously, even carried
>rocks :(. I also pay for my camping...unlike a lot of others. I'm all for
>preserving this area for the future. Just thinking practically and giving
>my 2cents...I know it can be a crime on chockstone. I'm all for constructive
>criticism and sometimes I forget others take it personally! But why? Who
>says that everything you do must be perfect on the first try?
>
>Again have you seen those small native pines. They're going to be useless
>for shade, and I think money could be better spent on plants that will
>be practical for what the area is used for.
Perhaps I'm just tired at the end of a long day at work, but you didn't seem to be offering any practical suggestions, alternative plants, sourcing of plants etc, just slagging off at the work done by volunteers. Whatever their merits or otherwise, the little pines have been grown, supplied and installed by volunteers (I was not involved).
*post-edit* "money could be better spent on..." a person donated the plants.
widewetandslippery
13/02/2012
8:10:28 PM
Use the wood chopped down for posts for an alcoa roof. Support aussie manufacturing and the aussie clture of sheds and chopping trees down. Enviromentally sound as people won't have to have tents made from petro chemicals.

It makes sense.
patto
13/02/2012
8:14:28 PM
On 13/02/2012 White Gold wrote:
>I don't see the point of growing these new native pines. Even once they
>have matured they aren't going to provide much shade in summer as they
>are small (3-6m when fully grown?) and not possible to camp under them.
>Which will only make the day camping area look more appealing to irregular
>guests during those hot summer days. You wont be able to tie things (tents,
>tarps, hammocks etc) to them as they seem a lot more flimsy. As much as
>the current pines may be weeds, they do a really good job. They are now
>even Iconic to araps, and seem to manage the conditions fine. If you are
>going to plant something it should be equivalent to what is already there
>:) or at least beneficial to the people using the area. During summer now
>shade is getting scarce and this is only going to get worse!
>
>I wouldn't be doing any planting before Easter either.

I completely agree.

This desire to go native seems a little fanatical if you ask me. There is nothing wrong with replacing pines with pines. But sadly we are sacrificing amenity for ideology.

Yet on the other hand we have no problem building amenities which are far more intrusive than planting them.
Access T CliffCare
13/02/2012
9:09:20 PM
Hi,

You can read a little of some discussion that happened a number of years ago (2008) re the pines and the natives that are being planted here http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=59512

(snip) There are two native species to Araps that are being used. Callitris Rhomboidea and another (I can't understand my own writing here starts with a pr, could it be Callitris pressii?((snip) - from my original post on this old thread.

I wasn't involved in the original planning and concept of using the native pines but as far as I am aware, discussion and involvement took place with locals and volunteers.
When I talk with the ranger about doing some reveg of the day visitor area, I will certainly take some of these suggestions regarding other plant types and see what has been previously discussed before, pros cons etc. etc. Any further thoughts, post here and/or drop me a line. It will of course require volunteers and more than likely some extra money - CliffCare and Friends I'm sure can help out as well with a little cash. Might even shoot some of the posters here a few pms and emails and round up their help :)
And as someone noted re planting before Easter - This won't be happening before then I can assure you.

cheers,

Tracey
gfdonc
13/02/2012
10:46:56 PM
On 13/02/2012 access t wrote:
>I wasn't involved in the original planning and concept of using the native
>pines but as far as I am aware, discussion and involvement took place with
>locals and volunteers.

Umm .. therein we discover the issue. The locals - who don't stay in the Pines - ..

shortman
Online Now
13/02/2012
11:04:46 PM
It was pretty obvious Parks was gonna cull some of the leaning pines when not so many people were around. It was time for some of them.

As for hot days. Just bail to the Horsham pool.
skegly
13/02/2012
11:12:47 PM
On 13/02/2012 salty crag wrote:
>A long term plan would be good. Incorporate some of the above suggestions
>such as plant faster growing species to provide shelter/shade and remove
>them once slower growing tree/shrubs have matured. There are a whole range
>of natives that could be included that while they are not indigenous to
>that particular area are non invasive and can be used as stop gaps.
>DS&E staff turn over and without a long term direction we are at the whim
>of whoever is in control at any particular time.


The DSE have been all for the word custodian, maybe just maybe 'we' should be the custodians of the land and work with the traditional owners as well as the rangers and whoever is in the government at the time as well as the visitors both tourists and climbers and make the park a even better place.
And yes radiator pine is a spreading weed that is also more flammable than gums and not that much grows under them so maybe slowly slowly WE can do better?
kieranl
14/02/2012
8:53:58 AM
On 13/02/2012 gfdonc wrote:
>On 13/02/2012 access t wrote:
>>I wasn't involved in the original planning and concept of using the native
>>pines but as far as I am aware, discussion and involvement took place
>with
>>locals and volunteers.
>
>Umm .. therein we discover the issue. The locals - who don't stay in
>the Pines - ..
>
As opposed to the non-locals who don't seem to have grown and provided plants for the pines. I wasn't involved in the pines stuff but perhaps all us locals should just f- off and leave you guys to it if that's the attitude. I thought you'd know better Steve. This sort of division of people (locals/non-locals, long-stayers/weekenders, trad/sport/boulderers) has got up my nose for decades.
BA
14/02/2012
11:02:13 AM
On 13/02/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:

>It makes sense.

Oooh .. pedant alert ... It should of course read "You know it makes sense, I'm Sam widewetandslippery".

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 44
There are 44 messages in this topic.

 

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