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Hardest Oz Solos? 26-May-2004 At 11:57:16 AM (removed)

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Sorry, have been out of the loop for a while ...

On 12/05/2004 WM wrote:
>All going well, you'll achieve the same end result - do you want to do it in
>a safer way, or in a more dangerous way?
It's NOT the same end result though in the same way as driving to the top is not the same as climbing. Same route perhaps, but that's where it ends ... By your theory, should we all just top-rope everything (where TR's are possible) because that's safer than leading - and gets us up the same bit of rock ? Good luck trying to convince the climbing community of that one ...

>Another way to put it: is there really enough "return" in soloing to justify
>the extra risk? The suggestions have been adrenalin, "feeling more alive"
>and speed .... is that really enough to justify it?
For me, yes, there was enough return. Never about adrenalin though, just about the freedom to climb a whole lot (and independently, too) in a day.

>The "return" on the risks that go with roped (& helmeted!) climbing is
>that you get to climb some awesome bits of rock. Soloing just gets you
>up the same bit of rock!
In a different way though. See first comment, you've missed the point.

>>How many soloing deaths have there been in Victoria versus leading/scrambling/abseiling deaths ?
>Dunno, but this is a misleading way to ask the question! More people
>die driving than soloing, so is soloing safer?! You need to allow for
>the quantity of each activity - leading/scrambling/abseiling gets done
>a *lot* more than soloing. That said, I'd be very interested if anyone
>could dig up some "fatalities per 1000 hours" -type stats for each activity.
> If they exist, which I doubt.
That's partially true, however, I think you'd be astounded at the amount of soloing that goes on. From your intonation, you imply that it's a microscopic proportion of total climbs done. However that's not true. Personally, of the 400 or so routes I did (past tense: not allowed to climb anymore) at Araps for example, some 80 were solos. The reality is that you just don't see most of the soloing that goes on because most people who do so, would rather do it out of the climbing public's eye. You can climb A LOT MORE routes in a day by soloing (~ 5-10 times as many)

>Anyone willing to help me out here or am I stranded in a world of soloers??
No-one's got a gun to your head.
... but if you said to me that I wasn't allowed to solo a route, I'd ignore you and piss off and do it anyway.

Neil summed up my "safety" point well in his comment when he said that you are more likely to give up when leading and bring in other factors. There's a mental alertness when soloing that can't be replicated on lead.

And let's face it, if you take a fall on Tiptoe Ridge you're in big trouble regardless of whether you're leading or soloing.

Anyway, back on the point, what is the hardest OZ solo ? Assuming "Spermies" doesn't count, has there been anything harder than Saxon's solo of "Ain't No Sunshine" ?